by Terry 10 Replies latest jw friends
My weekly conversations with my old friend, Johnny, who was responsible for bringing me into the Watchtower Society, have proved to be a Herculean task. He is still active in the organization and greatly skilled at avoiding anything unpleasant for him to face. I've learned to identify his evasions as such and prepare myself mentally to deal with them.
WHAT EVASIONS have you encountered?
HOW did you deal with them?
The denial of basic facts being true. For instance, when I told my brother that the Catholic church basically authored the Bible (Council of Hippo), he told me that I just heard "Apostate propoganda".
When I was questioning and stumbling y friend about the UN, he said he didn't want to talk about it. There was no evasion, he just came right out and said it.
Devon
The organization is not perfect and neither were the apostles. Sometimes correction is needed.
At the same time they still claim to be Jehover's sole channel of communication and disagreeing with them is tantamount to disagreeing with Jehover.
Also, if it is possible for Jehover's sole channel of communication to print errors in the WT, then is it not also possible for errors to have been published in the bible? After all, the bible was written by imperfect men just as the WT is today.
the number one and foremost evasion........rocky220
"Let Jehovah handle it........." while a pedophile is on the loose in the congregation.
Once about a year ago, I was out to eat dinner with my brother, and I brought up some of the Ray Franz stuff. BOY, is he ever good, he looks to the side and completely changes the subject I mean a 360 degree turn, like to the weather. He was so smooth just kept right on talking and before you know it, everyone was discussing the weather. My husband didnt even pick up on it. I did not pursue the conversation, I was so nervous about bringing it up in the first place. They are GOOD!
iv'e been questioning dozens of jw's weekly. i haqve been using a new method to pester jw's it's called the telephone. free long distance is a great thing. mostly i set them up with , is it true the wt has been giving proper spritual food at the proper time for the last 125 years. and worship acceptable to god? they will most always say yes this is true. now i have them set up like bowling pins. now i start in on some false prophecies and or false teachings flip flops etc. and go back to thier first answer they gave me that the wt has been giving proper spritual food at the proper time. now they can't answer me honestly, and start with the evasions, from which church do i attend, the pope is a dope, we don't fight wars, the list is endless. i stop them in their tracks and bring them back to my objections. now they say i want to argue, was i ever a jw, what's your purpose in talking with me . or the famous the light is getting brighter and brighter. now i'll ask what part of the world was to end in 1925 , 1918, hitler was going to take over the united states etc was light . which one of 1000's of false teaching ( pick any false teaching here)of the wt was light. no matter what they say at this point they know in the back of thier minds they are busted. i tell them to read prov 4;19 the way of the wicked is like darkness, and they don't know the reason why they stumble. now i ask again was the prophecy that the wt was more sure that abraham was going return in 1925 than noah was about the flood. light or darkness? who told noah about the flood? jehovah right. who told rutherfraud , he was more sure than noah about 1925 jehovah? at this point they are lost and start calling me names what i really like to throw in is that the wt today calls what the wt was teaching from 1918-25 forfullment of the 7 trumpets of rev. etc. so how does it feel to follow people that lie to you about thier history.etc. john
The 'articulator manipulators'.
Matthew 10:16;Jesus words:"..be cautious as a serpent,but innocent as a dove.."To the Watchtower's twisted mindset,this means to take an obstructionist approach (stonewalling) to all pleas against them.
The JW psychopath will look you in the eye,so that you can see your reflection in the back of their retina when the SOB bold face blatant F**king lies to you.
I know a whole lotta JW's who fit this description.OR,they lie 80% of the time and tell the truth with astounding candor the other 20%.So the victim thinks,"I've been imputing wrong motive","why, they told the truth this time,Sooo they must be telling the truth all the other times too....
My favorite Clint Eastwood quote from,"the outlaw Josey Wales";"DON'T PISS DOWN MY BACK AND TELL ME IT'S RAINING''! Did you know that a psychopath can often beat a polygraph?This is due to NO conscience.
Watchtower Liar this man on fire,Undaunted Danny,apostate with attitude [The Watchtower lied and people died!People usually imitate the God they worship 
]
When "witnessing" to anyone, information in my brain only travelled in one direction, out. Any objection was considered only enough to choose the appropriate answer. No matter what facts were presented, the moment it was clear the person wasn't "listening to reason" or interested in learning the truth, the mental turnstile closed, and a polite exit was made. When I would lose a religious argument, I would kick myself because I didn't choose the right words, or wasn't familiar enough with the rebuttal. The thought never entered my mind I could be wrong.
So I'm afraid nothing would have worked to make me see things differently, until I was ready.
Although . . . I do remember as a teenager talking with a Greek scholar at the door once who was well-versed with the John 1:1 argument. He was so sure and so specific in his facts, I left shaking my head, feeling sorry for him that he was hurting Jehovah with his mistaken beliefs and wishing I knew how to make a better arguement. But, what he said always stuck with me, for years and years. Hmmm, there's no article in that verse. You cannot accurately insert the article. But I thought ours was the more correct translation?
John 1:1 was one of the first issues I tackled when I started researching. I guess it was a seed planted that took years to sprout.
I have very politely and discreetly planted seeds in many people. Some have already had results. A subtle question or remark may be all someone needs to get them thinking on their own. But most often you will never know if a well-placed comment is immediately disregarded or if it makes a spark.
Masters of Evasion.
Here's the text of an email exchange I had with my dad recently, heavily edited for names... my letter is first, his reply below:
Dad, I needed to talk to you about something, but was too chicken to bring it up. It's not concerning just you, but a general attitude, and it's about (local childmolestor--LCM for the rest of this). I'd hope to think that what I've seen is just out of naivity, but it's hard to say. First, some general facts: The average estimated # of victims BEFORE the first arrest is 30-60, the estimated average # of victims can be up to a couple hundred in a lifetime. Recidivism (repeat offense) is very high for sex offenders. Incestuous child molesters have a lower rate of repeat offense than other molesters. http://ambercenter.org/bills_statistics.htm http://www.yellodyno.com/html/stats.html http://www.rasac.org/education/statistics.html I know LCM was convicted or pled out a child molestation charge brought by (his daughters.) I believe it was at least somewhat known at the time, although I know alot of people didn't ever hear anything. I am concerned that statistically, just because he "did his time," doesn't necessarily mean that he is not a danger to other kids. Some might say that he doesn't have any kids at home anymore, so others aren't at risk. Well, I know for a fact that he didn't limit his "tries" anyhow to just his girls. Remember how much time I spent over there? I was so naive, I didn't know what he was attempting. Fortunately, I was not a particularly vulnerable child, so on those occasions when he would stand too close or "accidently" put his hand on my bottom, or hug me all the way around my side with his hand on the outside of my developing breast, I would just move and chalk it up to him "not paying attention." In retrospect, I realize he was testing the waters. Clearly he was not just an incestuous abuser. His proclivities were to also look outside the family circle for victims. I also remember ***** wouldn't go anywhere near him, even though she was close with (daughter). She used to say he was creepy and she didn't trust him. I know she didn't know about the abuse until all the rest of us did when it came out in the justice system. Which brings me to another point, how long before he went to jail did the elders know he molested children? Why didn't anyone tell us? There were alot of kids in the hall... Why didn't YOU tell ME? Why didn't (Elder) tell (his own daughter)? Why didn't (another elder) tell (his own daughter)... or any of the other girls younger than that who were at risk? Is the loyalty to not wanting the Witnesses to "look bad?" or shouldn't it have been to outrightly and forthcomingly protect the kids? Which is more important? Haven't we learned anything from the Catholics? I remember that (LCM's daughters) had a restraining order. I remember LCM coming to the hall anyways, (even though he could have gone to the other Congregation.) (Daughter) told me that the elders told her that she should pray about it and "just deal with it" because LCM had a right to be in "Jehovah's House" no matter what the law said. Did you know about that? I know you knew that (LCM's daughters') molester was sitting within 10-20 feet at the meetings that he supposedly couldn't make at West. Did you know there was a restraining order and he was violating the law every time he met with East? Did you know of the "counsel" to (daughter) not to report him, and did you support that attitude? For several years after I left (hometown), I would go back to town for picnics, gatherings, the occasional meeting. There would be LCM, socializing with mostly everyone... including families with younger kids. I've been to picnics and watched him with his arm around 10 year old girls. And little kids climbing on him. Where are the parents? They're around, nobody seems too concerned. Do you know how easy it is to put your hands up or down a little kid's clothes and no one notices? Or how easy it is to walk to the bathroom with a child, behind a building, get in a car? I don't know if the parents are just really naive, hopelessly stupid, or they really don't know about his tendencies. I have no reason to believe he continues his crimes, but I have no reason to believe he has stopped either. When you talk about him like he is your friend, I feel hurt and angry because it could have been me. I could have been vulnerable, and he tried stuff, so in slightly different circumstances I could have been his victim too. When I see him being an accepted part of the congregation I feel angry too, because it feels like it's brushing the whole thing under the rug. It also scares me because not only do I know the statistics, but it's very personal. He abused my friends. He could do it again, and I never saw any precautions being taken. I'm also very concerned that the elders, particularly you--who everyone loves and respects--if they are seen being "pals" with him, could make it very hard for some parents who know, and have the commonsense to keep him out of their homes and away from their kids, they might feel obligated to treat him as safe. You know, this has troubled me for years. Everytime I get to a point where I convince myself it's none of my business or not my concern, and I stop thinking of it, I hear about him from someone, see him somewhere, and I get angry all over again. I wish I could have talked to you about this in person, but I was too nervous about being able to express myself clearly, so I wrote it. I hope you understood what I tried to say. Love, (Odrade)
Dad's reply:
(Odrade), thank you for the email and especially for expressing yourself. With regard to (LCM), the congregation reported it to the authorities asap. That is the policy. The concern is to protect everyone except the perpetrator. His arrest was published in the newspaper. I am sure that if the restraining order was known about, the brothers like (Elder, Elder, Elder) or myself would have acted. I feel that what you have seen was out of naivity. No one I know had ever delt with anything like that. I am sure you know how I feel about such activity. Most of us live with regrets due to our actions or lack of, this is a sick world we live in and it is geting worse moment by moment. Thank you for the reminder. The whole thing saddens me. Chapter 32 in the new Teacher book has some valuable information to protect children. I think it would be good to read to (the children I nanny for). But, maybe we have found a way we can express ourselves. Love, Dad How's that for evasion? Odrade (who just let everyone know one of the reasons my head has been messed up the last couple of weeks.)
