The elders do. They just get tired and finally DFed the person. They never usually consider it a "real" DFing, and sometimes they'll hold reinstantment over the persons head if they get medical treatment or they'l say something like "Jehovah understands their hearts, but we can't have them disrupting the meetings.". Now from what I have heard they have stopped doing this and just call the police to subdue the person. But this case was from 1997 thats ages in watchtower eddict time.
Disfellowshipped at 85!
by Voyager 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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El blanko
Perhaps the old boy got what was coming to him...
Devils:
You may be right of course.
The point of raising these cases IMO is to highlight the 'lack of love' within an organisation who claim to be 'full of brotherly love and affection' - when clearly they ain't
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sf
I must say, and I will...I fully concur with Devils Advocate's post in this thread.
sKally
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No Apologies
Hey Devils
Did you even read the article? This guy is just as much a victim of the Watchtower as any one of us. Yeah he actively supported the org for most of his life, he thought it was the truth. like a lot of us did at one time. For that you are going to condemn him?
Not to mention the fact, if there were more JW's like this guy, somebody who was not just a mindless drone, but who actually had his own opinions, maybe the Org would not be a F'd up as it is....
No Apologies
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Devils Advocate
Hey NO EXCUSES -
Looks like you really do make excuses -- at least for old JW's.
Your eclesiastical yet ever-condescending attitude is humerous, oh holy one. To quote that great sage, Bugs Bunny, let me exclaim, "It is to laugh."
Funny, but I don't remember asking your permission to voice my opinions nor do I really care what you think of those opinions. If you want to forgive the old man and have warm fuzzy feelings, knock yourself out. Oh, and yes, I know you don't give a damn if I dislike or disagree with your opinions either. Guess I'll just have to suck it up and get over it. Ah, well, life's a bitch sometimes...
In answer to your ad hominem attack, YES, I did read the article and YES I will condemn him, "victim" or not. If the world used your reasoning we would be forgiving SS death camp guards because they were, in reality, thoroughly brainwashed by the cult of Nazism. They were "victims" too, after all. I'm not kidding here -- Nazis were victomized just like you and me. Maybe, when we were out knocking on doors every Saturday and being good little stooges we weren't gassing anyone or lining up people for a firing squad. We were, however, supporting an organization that is responsible for the death of millions, which made us (and all JW's) defacto culprits. But I'm glad you have it in your heart to forgive those hapless JW's because, god knows, I sure as hell don't. But then, you've always been straining for sainthood, haven't you? -- while I've wasted my time at the devil's table. Lord have mercy.
I knew the WT was refuse at the early age of 15. I didnt' have to spend my lifetime altering a theology (like our 85 yr. old friend) to fit my needs just to keep a support group around me. I made my decision, knowing I would face shunning from all of my family, and I had the integrity (and balls) to get out. Period. I did not support the LIE and I did not put money into the hands of child rapists, child molesters, family demolition experts, and exponents of insanity. I did not aid the benevolant gang of shunners, nor did I support the anti-blood murder Gulag. In short, I washed my hands of the blood I had so eagerly thrust them into as a child. Oh, and I'm glad you have it in you to forgive me of my former sins, Oh Mighty Lord of Hosts No-Excuse. God knows I couldnt sleep tonight if I didn't have you as my contritionist. Praise be.
If you think my reasoning is harsh I suggest you climb down from your celestial perch and visit a family who has lost someone because the boys in Brooklyn convinced the "victim" to refuse blood. If you think my reasoning is harsh I suggest you take the heavenly elevator downtown to visit some of the ex-JW parents who literally have lost their children (and grandchildren) because the boys in Brooklyn convinced the kids to shun mom and dad. If you think my reasoning is harsh I suggest you stop polishing your halo long enough to visit a few victims of JW molestation and child abuse -- true victims -- and maybe chat with their parents a bit too (while you're at it, why not tell those parents how they too should forgive the JW's that molested their kids AND the rank and file JW support group. Share with them your theology of hapless victimhood and absolution. I'm sure they'll welcome your ideas with open arms.).
You see, I believe that if you support an evil organization you are evil too. Even if you are an 85 year old man. But then, what do I know? A sinner like me is too unworthy to see the wisdom of your most holy and canonical utterances. Will you find it in your heart to grant me absolution? What do you say my great Messiah-No Excuses? Forgive me? Please? Hmmm? -
Noumenon
What a rant! Devil's Advocate takes the most bitter and twisted newbie award for 2004.
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Devils Advocate
Bitter? Definately. You would be too if you lost your family to the LIE.
Twisted? Definately not. Judgemental -- yes. But my logic is no more twisted than that of others who have seen the beast face to face. I just don't cut the JW's any slack. And why should I? All they do is foster the destruction of close knit families (read: shunning) cause death (read: blood issue) and harbor fugitives (read: child molestation).
It may be a hardlined approach but so is the WT's.
Patton didn't defeat the Germans by sending them candy kisses now did he? -
No Apologies
Devils,
Have you considered therapy? For someone who left the org at 15, you seem to have a lot of unresolved issues.
No Apologies
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Poztate
new light that Alzheimer is the name of a demon?
Many oldtimers have health problems including alzheimers and dementia.This can cause some to speak without thinking and will get them into trouble with the elders.Anything that causes a disruption in the congregation will be dealt with and the only real "tool" the elders have is the fear of DF'ing to keep people in line.Their motto has always been "unity at any cost" and the old and infirm will pay the price.
An old brother in my congregation used to always like to talk about WW 2 and what he had been involved in.He liked to talk loudly about "the japs and the chinks" and how they had been taken care of with his help.He never thought for a moment how demeaning that was to speak of another race in this manner.I used to cringe if he even started walking in my direction.
He had another bad habit of telling the "real truth" when out in service..That is if you don't sign up with the "truth" god is going to kill you. Needless to say not many wanted to go out in service with him.
The elders finally got involved and after a while settled him down to the point where he had nothing to say at the meetings and seldom went out in service.I often wondered if they used the threat of "the big stick" to settle him down. I am sure if they couldn't have settled him down he would have been given the boot.
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Devils Advocate
NO Apologies -
Your ad hominen attacks abound. Too bad you can't back up your words with anything other than personal attacks. But then, I guess old JW tactics are a diffucult skin to shed, arent they, oh holy of holies?