If its good, God did it... if its bad Satan did it....

by Elsewhere 162 Replies latest jw friends

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  Elsewhere

  michelle,

  All of these reasonings your are using serve only to justify the cruelty of Jehover and appear nowhere in the bible. Basically they were invented by people like yourself who could find no other way to justify the contradiction of Jehover being a "loving" god in comparison to his behavior.

  Nowhere does the bible say that god meant to "hold the hand" of a woman in childbirth to prevent pain. The bible does say that god inflicted the pain on a woman as a punishment for defying him. I can't think of a single act of vengeance upon anyone committed by Satan.
  

  Gen. 3:16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children..."
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  Elsewhere

  Without knowing the difference between good and evil; the first people were essentially powerless against wiles of the serpent. They also would not have had the ability to fully understand the prohibition to eat from the tree.

  Exactly, God wanted ignorant slaves who would do anything he commanded without question.
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  undercover

  If God is not there to "hold your hand" birth would be painful. Eve chose to not have God there with her.

  If you move to a house with an over-grown garden that needs attention to be productive and beautiful again, it is hard work. But did the previous owner neglect it for years just to spite you?

  First of all, you didn't answer the question. Show me where Satan lied or deceived. Second, well, I don't get your analogy at all.

  they did die

  Not then, not that day, not that week, not even soon. Read it again. God told them to not touch. To touch meant to die. The serpent said, nope, you touch you learn good from evil. Read God's punishment to them after they ate again. Never did he say the result of eating was death. He said they would toil TILL they died. That was their punishment. They did eventyally die, hundreds and hundreds of years later. But, nowhere did God promise them eternal life to begin with. In fact he ran em out before they ate of the tree of life guaranteeing them eternal life.
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  Elsewhere

  Not then, not that day, not that week, not even soon. Read it again.

  Gen. 3:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die."

  God said they would die "the the day that you eat of it". They did NOT die in that same day and instead lived for several hundred years.
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  doogie

  p.s. spanking and being locked out are consequences, you wouldn't spank a child for being locked out and you wouldn't lock a child out for being spanked. That would be punishment. If God had kicked A & E out of the garden before they had sinned it would have been punishment and unjust. He was perfectly justified in what He did, and we have to live with the consequences.

  ah...you just gotta love the debate that declines into arguing semantics.

  i've personally never heard even the most diehard biblethumper argue that god did not punish adam and eve. i'd love to hear your definition of 'punishment' (i think i'm hearing you say that for punishment to be punishment it has to be unjustified, is that correct?)
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  myelaine

  undercover,

  satan said, "surely you will not die" He was counting on their innocence. They were deceived by him. Knowledge of good and evil , if evil meant death then it stands to reason that good meant life forever without death. Without it being specifically mentioned. God pronounced the earth and all that was on it at the time, good.

  Is that reasonable?
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  undercover

  They were deceived by him. Knowledge of good and evil , if evil meant death then it stands to reason that good meant life forever without death.

  I qouted the Genesis acount to prove my point. Show me where the account indicates what you said.

  God pronounced the earth and all that was on it at the time, good.

  The serpent was on the earth. Was it also pronounced good?
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  doogie

  you know what just hit me? we're debating the dialogue of a story that has been proven time and time again to be completely fictitious. next, why don't we debate what luke skywalker really meant in his first line from star wars.
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  heathen

  I can site the genesis account of the angels mating with man and creating a race of giants that wreaked havok , or there is the story of JOB where satan personally killed his family off and struck him with all sorts of misery just to try and break his integrity. Satan even tried to break jesus integrity which would have left mankind without salvation if he was successful . Satan is clearly the bad guy throughout the bible .
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  micheal

  I can site the genesis account of the angels mating with man and creating a race of giants that wreaked havok , or there is the story of JOB where satan personally killed his family off and struck him with all sorts of misery just to try and break his integrity. Satan even tried to break jesus integrity which would have left mankind without salvation if he was successful . Satan is clearly the bad guy throughout the bible .

  But ALL of that was allowed by God. If I had the power to stop something horrible from happening but didn't, I would be equally responsible.

  Just because God didn't pull the trigger didn't mean he didn't load the gun, give it to someone else and then allow that evilness to occur.