"REVISED" PEDOPHILE POLL RESULTS

by Amazing 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Thanks for the helpful comments. As a result, this Post is revised in the "Analysis" portion below. I made some math errors in a rush to post this in between work breaks. I did notice the errors at first, but it was posted and I was out of time.

    POLL RESULTS AND ANALYSIS: I appreciate everyone participating in the POLL. I had the thread locked so that the results would be preserved consistent with my analysis. Also, additional numbers will not add that much more meaning, as I believe that we have enough data to at least form a reasonable conclusion.

    Premise of POLL: You will note that I only asked one question. I did not ask how many congregations you were in, nor did I limit the responses only to those who knew molesters. So, some of you who knew none took the time to respond. This open-ended approach is good because the simpler the poll, with few or just one question, helps to reduce confusion and mainly helps mitigate slanting or prejudicing the results: Now let’s look at the tabulation and see what we can make of it:

    Total readers as of today: 1200+
    Total responses: 90
    Subtract to bring post to top: 7
    ____________________________________________
    Net Responses: 83

    Total knowing zero molesters: 19

    Total knowing one or more: 64

    Total known molesters reported: 183

    Average per ALL respondents: 2.20
    Ave. among those knowing one or more molesters: 2.86

    Total non-USA respondents: 14
    Total non-USA molesters cited: 29

    Percentage Non-USA responses: 17%
    Percentage of Non-USA molesters:16%

    Analysis: I am using two important conservative values: 1.) That the average JW has been in at least five (5) congregations in their lifetime. 2.) I am using the lower average of ALL respondents of 2.20 known molesters per person, including those non-USA. This allows for any other variations such as a congregations where some know about a molester, but others do not. 3.) This study is applied only to the USA. Some of the respondents posted were from other nations as were the molesters they reported, but my conservative assumptions help offset this, and it is evident that the ratios of respondents to molesters is about the same, that is 17% to 16%. So these will be kept in the study of the USA as it will not affect the extrapolations.

    A. – Averages: Total respondents were 83. If we conservatively assume that each has been in five (5) congregations, then this means that of 415 (83 x 5) congregations there are 183 known molesters. This yields an average of 0.44 molesters per congregation, whether every JW knows about the molester or not, and/or accounts for several JWs in the same congregation knowing the same molester.

    B. – Extrapolation: There are about 11,500 congregation in the USA. Therefore, conservatively using the average of 0.44 molesters per congregation times 11,500 congregations, yields 5,071 molesters per ALL congregations in the USA. This is still higher than my original analysis of about 3,000 to 3,500 molesters nationwide.

    C. – Additional Conservatism: "Deleted" and unnecessary

    D. – Potential Victims: The victims of JW molesters do not have to be JWs themselves. The mere fact they are a victim is adequate for this analysis. Molesters are a threat to every child regardless of sex, religion, etc. The attorney that I worked with on this issue uses the average of 300+ victims per molester. He bases his number on studies that have to hold up in a court of law when prosecuting cases for his clients. Therefore, 300 victims x 5,071 molesters among the JWs nationwide yields a potential victims population of 1,521,325 victims of JW molesters.

    E. – JW Population: The fact that this number exceeds the total number of about 1,000,000 JWs in the USA is not critical. Remember that the Society primarily counts active, baptized publishers as its ‘official’ count. There are likely another 1,000,000 associating who are newly interested, Bible Studies, and others. The JW parents may have as many as 1 to 3 children associating, thus adding another 1,000,000 or so to the JW population in the USA. Also, recall that the victims may not all be JW children.

    F. – JWs to the USA: There are about 280,000,000 residents in the USA, of which there are about 1,000,000 active JWs. This gives a ratio of 1 active JW for every 280 residents. However, the JW population is higher if one counts those associating, studying, inactive, and children. I suggest that this falls somewhere between a total of 2,000,000 to 3,000,000 JWs and associates in the USA. This would render about 1 JW in every 100 USA residents.

    The significance is that if there are 5,071 molesters among about 1,000,000 active JWs in the USA, this yields a percentage of 0.51 percent of the JW population are molesters. Let’s look at this further:

    Studies show that about 6% to 60% of all females, and 3% to 30% of all males in the USA have been sexually abused or molested at least once before age 18. The current population in the USA is now almost evenly divided between male and female. That balance used to favor more females because of war in the 20th century killing off a lot of men, but has changed by the late 1990s. Using that even distribution, 6% of females and 3% of males can be averaged out to conservative 4.5% to 45% of the population in the USA has been sexually abused prior to age 18.

    How many potential molesters in the general population? Using the lower number of 4.5% to 280,000,000 residents equals a potential victim population of 12,600,000 nationwide. I think this is a little low. If molesters have an average of 300+ victims, then this would translate into 42,000 molesters nationwide among the general population. Again, I think this number is a little low. It does represent a molester population of 0.0002 (0.02%) of the nation at large.

    Therefore, the JW average I found of 5.2% JW victim population and 0.44 JW molester population correlates somewhat to the national averages and is withing range of the general population. The JWs averages appears a little higher I suspect because of the Watch Tower being a more fertile ground for pedophiles to locate. Or my extrapolation may be high, though I do not think so. This was also the case among other religions, public and private schools, and day care centers before the legislators increased regulations and victims increased civil suits against churches, schools, and day care centers. This forced a serious change in operations among these groups. The Watch Tower is clearly behind the rest of the nation in addressing this most serious issue.

    Correlation: I find enough correlation in this study to suggest to me that the data supports the extrapolations. Given the conservatism used, and the correlation to the studies done on the general population, this study seems to be valid:

    My Assessment: 1,521,325 potrential victims of JW molesters can also be evaluated down by using the national victim averages: Using the national Average of 4.5% to about 3,000,000 associated with JWs would yield 135,000 victims of JWs molesters with all who may associate with that organization. Does an order of magnitude lower make us feel better?

    Why the large ranges?: The ranges of 3% to 30% (men), 6% to 60% (women), and 5.1% (JWs) shown above are not because the data is unscientific or wildly uncertain. Everyone in the USA has not submitted to study such that the actual number is not known. Mental Health professionals, therefore, have to use study data as it is collected from actual case loads and input for evaluation and extrapolation. So, the range is likely done much the same way I mitigated my extrapolations. Frankly 3% to 6% is scary enough without taking this to the potential of 30% to 60%. Also, these ranges account for definition issues, such as the total sets including fondling, whereas subsets may only discuss actual genital copulation.

    What to make of this?: Approximately 135,000 to 1,521,325 victims of JW molesters? What price do you place on this? How do you account for a religion that claims to be more pure than all other religions or organizations or peoples or nations on this planet – a religion whose extrapolated molestation average of 5.2% exceeds the USA national extrapolated average of 4.5%? How do you begin to stop this insanity? How do you make sure that innocent men do not get falsely accused? How do to repair the damage and emotionally and spiritually heal the children? How do you help the children, mostly male victims, avoid double victimization as adults by being suspected as higher risk to become molesters?

    How do you break the chain of abuse? Maybe its time to start standing up publicly by being counted, and break the silence! Maybe we cannot do this for the whole nation, but as former JWs, maybe we can at least help with the 1% of JW populations that we know about. Maybe, NBC Dateline is the first among many such steps to get this ball rolling – and make the world a little better for our children and grandchildren to come. Eccl. say that there is a time for peace and a time for war; a time for silence, and a time to speak.

    In our civilization and in our individual lifetime we have opportunity to make a difference. We need some rational and mature treatment of this serious social ill of molestations among the JWs. The peodphiles need to be kept away from children, but need mental health treatment and/or biological treatment to find a cure for their madness. More importantly, the victims need to finally feel safe enough to speak up and get help, and identify the perpertrators. Victims need help to break the cycle before many of them will become perpertrators or isolated and mentally depressed for life. Does not this situation appeal to our inner most sense of humanity to take a stand? - Amazing

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    I do not personally think that all those statistics you created are very meaninful for such a small sample. If only honest and active JWs who would be in a position to be privy to knowledge about child abuse (or not) in the congregation could be added to the mix of responses, I think the sampling would be more representative.

    Those of us who participated in your survey who have been out for decades yet remember abuse going on those many years also do not contribute at all to a clear picture of what has been going on lately.

    That's not to say that I think things have changed much from the past, but rather that the survey cannot be taken seriously about providing insight into today's problems in the JW congregations.

    Farkel

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    Thank you very much Amazing for your survey. I apologize for not having participated. This was simply due to the obvious reality that such a poll would be highly subjective.

    I do believe though that the simple reality that many Witnesses know people who have been found guilty of molesting young ones and the existance of a large number of victims, exposes any claims or perceptions that a "spiritual paradise" generally free of such ones is a false one.

    Because of the trusting nature of one Witness toward another, even another they do not know well and the tendancy of molesters to harm several people and the unusually large cirle of contacts that a Witness has, even one molester can do terrible damage to many congregations over several years.

    I really hope your estimated number of molesters is high. Personally given the nature of the crime, I don't think anyone really knows for sure what percentage of the population in or out of the organization commits these sorts of crimes.

    Path

  • Roamingfeline
    Roamingfeline

    Amazing, without meaning to, I screwed up your survey results. I attended meetings only in the USA. I was only ever in two congregations as a member. So my input should be added to your USA statistics. Sorry!

    RCat

  • larc
    larc

    Amazing,

    Under A. Averages, you made a math error. You divided 183 into 830. You should have divided 830 into 183.

    I think your assumption of 10 congregations per pub. should be changed to 5.

    The number of 300 molested per molester seems high to me. I would want to see references on that one. I would think that an average of 100 would be very high let alone 300.

    One thing that struck me was that less than 20% did not know of molesters. I did not think this number would be so low.

  • Pork Chop
    Pork Chop

    larc that little mathematical error in A makes an enormous difference doesn't it? That's 0.2204 per congregation as opposed to 4.54, and if we make it five congregations instead of ten then it becomes 0.4408 per congregation. I suspect that may be getting near the reality. If we round it off roughly and say there are two molesters in every five congregations that sounds like a reasonable kind of number. Using my personal experience as a basis that means two out of 435 publishers which works out to 0.46%. Anyone know the percentage of molesters in the general population? Of course we don't have really have a time factor here and I'd like to see that

    300 seems way too high to me as well. I think 117 victims per molester has been quoted as well. In the two cases I knew personally that certainly wasn't the case. Who would have the opportunity to molest that many people?

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hello all: I made significant revisions, so I am sending this to the top. I think that numbers are better, and the correlations to the USA national averages are better. Thanks for your input. - Amazing

  • waiting
    waiting

    Hey Amazing,

    Thanks for your time and effort. May I ask your background? As for the the amount of victims to molesters, I don't know the new figures.

    But I do know there are different types of molesters. I would assume that can't be factored in - but there's a special term for the molester who is more than the casual babysitter/grandparent/drunk daddy, etc. There are predators who will go over the hundred mark.

    But from what I've read, there aren't that many super predators around. Many more casual molesters (not belittling what they do, they just don't go into the hundred's group.)

    Sometimes just tires the mind out. Thanks.

    waiting

  • Pork Chop
    Pork Chop

    I've been trying to get a handle on this because I'm just not buying the 300 victims per molester. I found the following very interesting document that I recommed everyone who is interested in this subject should read. http://www.missingkids.com/download/nc70.pdf

    This is pretty authoritative and one thing it makes clear is that there is a vast difference between situational molesters and pedophiles. While it may be that as Waiting says, there are some 'super predator' pedophiles that have high numbers, the situational molesters do not.

    I think the following quote is telling, "What is the difference between child molester and a pedophile?

    Unfortunately, the two terms are often used interchangeably, which causes some confusion. The term "child molester" is ultimately very generic, and means only that an individual has committed a sexual offense against a minor. The term "pedophile" is often used to describe individuals who prefer sexual relations with children. It is more helpful to refer to "situational" and "preferential" pedophiles, a distinction made by the FBI Behavioral Science Unit. The situational offender is a person who prefers sexual relationships with an age peer, but who, when experiencing high levels of stress or for other reasons, turns to a minor for sexual contact. Incest offenders are often situational offenders. Many will offend against only one victim during their lifetimes, although others may have a series of victims during their lifespan.

    On the other hand, preferential pedophiles have had few, if any, sexual relationships with age peers, and have a life long interest in children, most often males. They may literally have hundreds of victims during their life, and they typically pose a much greater risk to the community at large." http://www.svsotp.com/pedofaq.htm

    To make any sense of these numbers we really have to have some idea of what kind of people we're dealing with. I suspect most are going to be "situational" offenders.

    One additional comment, I have found Amazing's approach to this matter interstesting. However, I find it somewhat disconcerting that as soon as the numbers dropped he threw his 'conservatism' out the window. If the 'conservatism' had any value whatsoever then it should still apply.

  • waiting
    waiting

    Hey Pork Chop,

    Thanks for the click. I don't read as much as I used to about child molesters/rapists/pedophiles. Personal decision based upon my background - but thank you for the click - I'll go there.

    I do appreciate the need to be current, balanced, and term correct when speaking about such horrors.

    About 10 years ago, I read that the average child molester would molest approx. 50 kids. The priest/coach style molester - using his position and skill to gather victims.

    But the "situational" child molester, perhaps one or two victims - it wasn't his lifelong quest. And he could stop what he was doing, particularily if looking at jail time & therepy.

    I don't know the proper term for the "super predators" but I've read where they are rare. But as individuals, we tend to want all child molesters to be them - the strangers in town, the man in the black coat by the school yard, etc.

    In reality, by far, child molesters are people we know well, and they know our children well. And they look/act so normal.

    waiting

    Again, thanks for the clicks.

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