Btw, I'm not surprised by the (mostly) negative/unwilling responses from males and (mostly) positive/willing from females. Are you?
Why doesn't this suprise you?
DNA
by teejay 32 Replies latest social current
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pettygrudger
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teejay
No, the more I think about it the more I don't like it. I think if the police need a probable cause to search your home then they need a probable cause to invade my body.
That's the way I feel about it, not that it will do much good. If "they" haven't got my DNA already, if they want it they'll get it. It's one of those age-old freedoms that Homeland Security/the Patriot Act have made a thing of the past. This ain't your grandpaw's America anymore.
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teejay
Why am I not surprised? Simply because women aren't generally seen as criminals.
A totally separate news report the other day dealt with the investigation of a child murder. Turns out the assailant was female, a suspect who was never on investigator's lists because they targeted nothing but males. -
Xena
My ex dated a parole officer for a short time. During that time a policeman friend of hers decided to investigate him...for purely personal reasons. He was able to get MY cell number....a number I had only gotten a few months before...and he called me asking for information on my ex acting like it was "police business" and requesting I not say anything to my ex about it...he also came by my apartment...put vaseline on the peep hole so I couldn't see who was there...to try and grill me about my EX-husband.
My point? Not all police officers are ethical. I would prefer not to allow just anyone to access anymore information about me than necessary, thank you very much.
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myauntfanny
?I suggest to you that if we ran a police state, we would be much more successful at solving crime.?
And there you have it in a nutshell, why people acquiesce to police states: they think they'll be safer. History shows differently, of course. The source of danger simply shifts, from the criminals to the state itself. You're better off with the criminals, in my opinion. At least THEY aren't keeping your DNA in a database.
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Country Girl
I wouldn't personally have a problem with it, as long as my DNA was properly destroyed afterwards and not put in some databank or saved in some vault somewhere. But if I didn't want to, I don't think a Court should be able to force me to without probable cause.
It also would seem to violate my constitutional rights against unlawful search and seizure. In addition, there are so many crime labs in which the chain-of-possession protocol has been broken, or the samples not derived, tested, or preserved in the appropriate manner. Look at Van Atter walking around with that vial of blood in his pocket before turning it over to forensics in the OJ case. Uh uh....
Speaking of DNA abuse, there are currently hundreds of convictions based on DNA up in the air in Harris County, Texas because of the conditions of their DNA lab. When people's lives are riding on this science, and the people doing the testing aren't properly trained, there are water leaks in the ceilings leaking on samples, and unauthorized personnel walking around, I think the death penalty should be suspended indefinitely. See the following article:
Sept. 2, 2004, 3:17PM
Crime lab probe looks beyond Harris County
Evidence in 14 outside cases was tested at Houston facility
By ARMANDO VILLAFRANCA
Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle Austin BureauAUSTIN -- Houston police have identified 14 cases outside Harris County in which the department's troubled crime lab tested DNA evidence, and there probably are more, a police commander said Tuesday.
"This is only a part of what the total will be," Capt. Richard Holland, who heads the HPD homicide division, told the House General Investigating Committee.
He added that the department has not completed its internal investigation of the crime lab.
"We have referred at this point a total of 1,322 cases to the Harris County District Attorney's Office," Holland testified. "As they continue their work in reviewing those cases, I'm sure there will be more. How many, I don't know."
State Rep. Kevin Bailey, D-Houston, the committee's chairman, called the hearing to determine how many cases outside Harris County may have been tainted by the crime lab's record of shoddy work.
Acting Houston Police Chief T.N. Oettmeier shut down the facility in January after a Texas Department of Public Safety audit exposed widespread problems with the lab.
According to the audit, lab workers were insufficiently trained, did not follow standard scientific protocols and gave trial testimony based on questionable lab results.
A team from the National Forensic Science Technology Center will arrive next week for an on-site audit of the crime lab.
Marie Munier, who is overseeing the district attorney's investigation, testified before the committee Monday that retests were ordered in 95 cases, including 17 death penalty cases.
Retesting resulted in the release last month of Josiah Sutton, who had served 4 1/2 years of a 25-year sentence for rape.
Although several groups have called for an independent review, the investigation of cases involving the lab has remained in the Harris County prosecutor's office.
"If there was a trial and there was DNA evidence that in any way implicated or inculpated the defendant, then we flag that case for retesting," Munier said.
She said her office has methodically handled each case to ensure that the slightest hint of a problem with a DNA test would be thoroughly reviewed.
"I've made the statement (that) even if we have six confessions and 12 eyewitnesses and fingerprints galore, we're not making a judgment on the weight that DNA evidence played in that conviction, if any," Munier said. "But we're flagging everything -- even the pleas of guilty, even the cases with confessions -- for retesting."
Holland said two cases each were found in Fort Bend, Montgomery and Galveston counties. Waller, Chambers and Goliad counties each had a single case in which the Houston crime lab tested DNA evidence used in trials.
The 14 cases included five in the U.S. Attorney's Office in Houston and one case from Goliad County in South Texas.
Fort Bend County District Attorney John Healey said his office had used the Houston crime lab in cases involving crimes committed in the section of Houston that is in his county.
He said his office and a defendant's attorney decided against retesting DNA evidence in a murder case because the crime was witnessed by three people and the defendant testified that he shot the victim in self defense. A second case was dismissed.
"Those were the two cases that came to mind," said Healey, who also is having sexual assault cases reviewed.
He said about 300 cases originating out of Houston were filed in Fort Bend County, but most were misdemeanors. Houston police have cooperated with his office in the effort to find cases, Healey said.
"I didn't come on up here to cast stones at the HPD crime lab," he said. "They've been working with us in identifying cases."
Sylvia Yarborough of the Montgomery County District Attorney's Office said the DNA evidence introduced in one case was not critical to the prosecution. In a second case, she said, DNA evidence was retested by Montgomery County authorities.
But, she said, the trial judge did not allow the medical examiner's testimony and the state's case did not hinge on the DNA evidence.
The district attorneys in Galveston, Liberty and Chambers counties notified the committee that they were unable to attend Tuesday's hearing.
Munier said Harris County District Attorney Chuck Rosenthal could not attend because he was appearing before a grand jury investigating the crime lab.
She said all of the county's 22 state district courts receive weekly retesting list updates in the ongoing investigation.
I'd fight it.
Country Girl
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avishai
just don't see the problem unless you get caught in a crime, which is not going to happen to me.
That's a bold statement. You may not get caught in "crime" per se, however, there are many who were'nt caught in crimes, who are innocent, in our prison system
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teejay
If you read the article/saw the show, then you know that an inmate in a state prison matched the DNA sample the cops had from the victim. Even so, the report showed all the 200 samples from the innocent still neatly placed in a box, with the voice-over that the police would dutifully protect the privacy of the innocent.
Point is: the DNA taken from the innocent wasn't destroyed. Anybody's guess if it ever would be. -
Gretchen956
TJ, good thread. Absolutely NOT. I would not volunteer anything, not fingerprints, not dna, absolutely nothing without probably cause and a court order. Yes, I am not going to go around committing a crime, but I have seen the harassment techniques, the lying, and the coercion that the police use. I was married to a cop for 15 years. It's getting more and more like 1984 all the time, big brother watching. I have known people personally who were on email lists which protested the one or more of the tactics of our present administration (I don't protest and have my own opinion, and I'm not getting into whether I agree or disagree here)... anyway, they went to fly to Washington DC to go to a protest and they were not allowed on the plane because they were on a terrorist watch. One was 68 years old.
Don't get me started!
Sherry
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BrendaCloutier
I have no problem giving a DNA sample. I don't feel it is any different than the laws requiring a breathalizer test if you are suspected of being drunk and driving, or "in control of a motor vehicle". I have no problem with the idea that DNA data is kept in a national or international database. I feel that more good that harm has, and will come from this. I also feel that the general sweep is no different than a police blockade on New Years Eve pulling everyone over and testing them for drunk driving. I believe that these "laws" are in our best interest, as are seatbelt and helmet laws. But, then, I also believe in the Darwin theory. If ya dun't wanna obey the laws (driving drunk, not wearing seatbelts or helmets), yous gets what yous gets.
-Brenda
I absolutely will NOT give out my Social Security Number, Driver's License Number, Financial Account numbers. I have had my ID stolen, some simply by guesswork. I now own a house in Texas that is in arrears on it's mortgage. I suppose maybe I could just pay the arrears and claim the house as mine?