Hi SNG: Your post didn't offend me at all. I haven't read your post that you mentioned yet. I've been so busy that I didn't have time to respond sooner.
Obviously because I believe in God this post will reflect that.
Hi Abaddon: I wasn't going to respond but I do want to make some points, not that you or anyone would change their mind, It's put together rather quickly. Don't really have time to work on it, but I'm sure you get my drift.
If someone was able to prove god existed, fine, but I'm not holding my breath. No one's done it yet. And that is not through want of trying.
You state that no one has proven God’s existence but many people would argue that point. Many people firmly believe that it has been proven, through nature, through changes in peoples lives, etc. The only thing we haven’t seen is the physical body of God, the Father and I don’t think we could handle it.
If god existed and how we acted mattered we would know. No reasonable being deserving of worship would let people be uninformed and suffer as a result. If god would allow people by action or inaction to be ignorant of what they should do and of the certainty of its existence,. This is not an insult against any gods other than the ones that fit the attached description.
As I’ve stated, I believe that God exists and it does matter how we act and we do know how we should act. We are informed, through the bible for one. I do believe that God has placed in us moral principles and the knowledge of Him deep inside us. For some it’s buried so deep they can’t even acknowledge it. Some comments, which I deleted, I would rather not address except to say that one needs to learn to respect other peoples opinions contrary to ones own. I don’t believe in Islam or Hinduism but would never hurl insults at these people or the people they looked up to. They have every right to believe what they want but that doesn’t mean that I have to accept it. Likewise they don’t have to accept mine.
I realise that some people feel god allowing us to be sure it existed would negate free will, and use this as the big excuse of why god isn't provable, but quite frankly the argument they use is absurd as it assumes that IF god existed AND proved he existed beyond reason ALL people would do what they should.
1.Maybe we are being tested to see how truly loving we are. (How many of us complain about the suffering in this world, especially in third world countries, but as individuals do nothing about it) 2.Maybe He wants us to really seek Him, which takes work on our part.
I also realise some people perceive god or think they are god, but as they often disagree with each other I think we know what value we can assign to these perceptions or delusions.
I do believe in an absolute truth. Some things just aren’t negotiable or debatable. God Himself has decided, not me, but I'm sure that some would consider me arrogant for stating so. What someone may think or create in his own head isn’t necessarily reality. Each one of us has to make a decision about what we believe, whether we reject all gods altogether, whether we embrace Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, etc. Because I’m Christian I will try to comment about Christian beliefs. I feel that most mainstream Christians do believe the same thing when it comes to the really important doctrines. It’s when we get to the smaller, less significant things that we may disagree.
It might be something we would call god exists, but we are unimportant to it despite our inflated little monkey egos. Give a primate an opposable thumb and it's all airs and graces... But obviously in such an instance it really doesn't matter if god exists or not.
Not sure what you mean by this paragraph.
So thus far god either is an , or is irrelevent, or doesn't exist. As god existing also requires all sorts of illogicity and pre-supposition, as I say, prove it but I expect to be disappointed each time someone tries.
Illogicity - that’s a new one for me. Did you ever believe in God? Was there one thing in particular that happened to you personally to change your views or was it over time?
god > morals > laws > goverment is an old disproven theists chestnut, I think I've read it in 'Mere Christianity", where essentially C.S. Lewis says that there is a god because we have morals.
If your dog pisses on the carpet it normally knows it is in trouble; that's not morals, that's learned behaviour and instinct completely fitting within a non-divine explanation of reality. To conclude that humans are different is to make a presuppostition that humans morals are 'magic' from 'god', and not merely instinct (don't piss off a more dominant 'dog' in the afore mentioned example) and learned behaviour (because he'll hit you with a newspaper and push your nose in the pee-pee). Making assumptions because one is unaware of animal or human behaviour is not proof of god.
Do you really compare your behaviour to an animal? Obviously animals don’t have morals. As you state it’s learned behaviour and instinct. I don’t think a dog would gather up a bunch of other dogs and help the less fortunate dogs that don’t have anything to eat. I doubt that they care if another dog goes hungry unless it’s a mother.Yes humans learn certain behaviour and as a woman I totally believe in instinct but I believe that each person is born with moral values. I think in time because of negative learned behaviour, trauma, etc it can be pushed deep inside but I believe that everyone has it. Heaven help us all if it’s strictly learned behaviour and instincts.
First of all even though I do come across as very annoyed, I’’m not, but am very saddened and offended by a number of remarks. I'm not offended when someone questions or wonders if God exists, it's when people make derogatory comments about Him that offends me and I'm sure most Christians.
I'm sorry, I find it offensive that I have to act as though your imaginary friend existed to avoid offending you. Do you watch what you say about non-believers in god in case you offend them?
I’m a little confused. How could I have offended you personally when this is your first post to this topic. As I’ve stated before, I’m not offended by someone disagreeing with me. I am offended when someone uses derogatory words about someone that I believe in. Show me where I may have offended someone who has different views to mine.
If so, you've failed. Your arrogance in assuming people's comments about something they don't believe exists applies to your personal deity is offensive... or do you know definatively that YOUR interpretation of the Bible is right? Atheists lampoon the idea of god, but to say they are insulting god is to lose track of the simple fact they don't believe in god. They are insulting the idea of god, as it is arguably a silly one.
As I’ve stated before, show me how I truly offended someone just by stating my views and beliefs. Do you definitely know that you are right? If one doesn’t have any convictions about something, stand for something one is extremely shallow in my estimation. What I truly don’t understand is why you get so annoyed because someone believes in God. Would you have the same reaction if someone said that they believed in say, Santa; that he was the creator You may roll your eyes and think, this person needs help, but would you get angry with him?
Oh, do you make sure that believers in other gods are not offended by what you say?
I don’t think that people who strongly believe in one god would be threatened by someone believing in a different god. I may not agree with someone but I wouldn’t be offended. Unless they shoved it down my throat and make me feel that I had no choice.
Tell you what, the day you make sure what you say doesn't offend me as an atheist or believers in any possible form of god, then you can start finger pointing about how other people talk.
There you go again accusing me of offending you when this is your first post. You would be more correct if you say that I may have offended atheists in general, but not you personally.
I also love how the believers are the presupposers whilst the agnostics and even some atheists are those who admit if better information came along they would revise their opinion, but what else would an atheist expect, eh?
You don’t love it. You know, someone who truly wants the truth, whether they are believers, agnostics or atheists wouldn’t feel threatened and might consider changing their minds if they got valid information. I feel that some people may be too stubborn to admit that they may be wrong.
If there is a god it'll be far grander than the pathetic and childish human conceptions of it, that's for sure.
On some level I have to agree with you there. I don’t think people could ever comprehend how incredibly awesome God is. We only see small glimpses of His existence, as much as we can handle. I do think that if we could, we wouldn’t be able to handle it. It would be too much. But hey, I believe in Him and I won’t apologize for that. I hope there are no hard feelings, but please don't use foul language. Agree to disagree but show some respect please..
