Why I will never be a Christian.....

by outbutnotdown 20 years ago 32 Replies latest 20 years ago watchtower bible

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  outbutnotdown 20 years ago

  I have read a lot of books about spirituality, religion and self-awareness. The one major problem I have with Christianity (and despite the fact that people may suggest that I am just turned off by being raised as a JW.... I think that my point would be valid without having experienced that negative start to life).

  The one common premise of Christianity is that we are sinners at birth and that we need salvation, otherwise we are disrespecting God. I have also read other books that use the premise at the exact opposite end of the spectrum...... namely that we are perfect at birth and that we, through choice, use prejudisms and negative thought patterns that end up making this "sinner" theory more believable.

  I'm not suggesting that either of these theories is absolutley correct, but I choose to lean more towards the "perfect at birth" theory. The reason I do so, is that I have tried it both ways, both in my personal life and also in raising my kids and both work better for me when I look at the human race as being more perfect at birth and throughout the rest of our lives, rather than just needing salvation. My love for my kids has become even greater and I have been able to understand them better using this other theory as well. That in itself is enough evidence, IMO, but there are others as well.

  Whatever we are doing in life, how successful are we when we tell ourselves, "I'm such a loser, that girl will never like me", or "I know that I will never get this job", etc. Why is it that we seem to understand that negative thoughts beget negative results in everyday life, but we tend to ignore this reality when it comes to a belief in what should be the highest form of intelligence in our universe?

  Does anybody else feel this way?

  Brad

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  frankiespeakin 20 years ago

  This is why I will never become Christian.

  Because there is no solid proof that the Bible truly is God's word. In the Bible everything has to be believed,, or your evil. That's a big mind control trick,, to make you want to believe without any proof. This thing called Faith what is it that makes it so important, if we are to please God??. Why does God need to be believed in any way???

  Why should He even care. If He's God,, why does he gets so upset when people don't believe in him? Why does he have to be such a big deal? The idea is absurd when you think about. It all mind control if you start beleiveing in the Bible.

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  Navigator 20 years ago

  I too am no longer comfortable with the classification of "Christian". Not considering all of the blood that the Christian religion has on its hand, which is considerable, I have come to the conclusion that most of what it teaches doesn't have much to do with what Jesus taught. I not only believe that we were created in perfection but remain that way still. Perhaps the hindus have it right. All of this seems to be "maya" or illusion. In recent years, I have become comfortable with the teachings outlined in "A Course in Miracles". That teaching seems to cut through all of the "bullshit" put out by organized religion. According to that teaching no one is going to be lost. How long we choose to "slop hogs" in a foreign land (earth) is up to us and the choices we make.

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  outbutnotdown 20 years ago

  Navigator,

  I haven't read "A Course in Miracles" yet, but I am going to ensure that I do....... a lot of people have spoken highly of it.

  As far as Christ and Christianity, I tend to agree with Gandhi, when he said, "I like your Christ, but I don't like your Christians. Your Christians are not at all like your Christ." IMO, that is just a very simple and brilliant assessment of it.

  I, personally, have expressed similar sentiments about it, but in not quite so elegant a way. I have said to people that if Christ was capable of coming back to earth (and no I don't believe that he can, but if he could)...... I think he would look at Christianity and say, "That's not what I f***ing meant, you arrogant a**holes!" Hopefully I haven't pissed off any Christians, but yeah, I think even Christ showed his human tendencies and probably even swore a few times.

  Brad

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  franklin J 20 years ago

  In my opinion, the 2000 year old Christian movement has forever altered our Western Cultural perception on many things; some good; some bad; none of it original in ANY way.

  I am particularly miffed at the Christian mind set towards sexuality. After the Roman Empire; the sexuality which was so much a part of Roman Culture ( look at the statues!) was obliterated during temporal Church rule ( the origin of all the fig leaves covering the nude groin). It was obviously lacking in the medieval art produced ( stinted and flat; absolutely NO nudity).

  In more contemporary times; it has been translated here in America as the prudishness which is so much a part of American secular laws.

  I think our European friends have a much healthier and "realistic" perspective on sexuality. Like the socialized healthcare and Education in Europe; the perspective on sex is more in tune with "human nature".

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  ThiChi 20 years ago

  Why I am a Christian:

  I love the Paradox. We need to admit we are all sinners, or you can?t join. Acknowledging your sins, realizing them and you are forgiven. We can keep going.

  The experience of spiritual power is a joyful one. We know what we are doing, what our living entails. For when we truly know what we are doing, we are participating in the omniscience of God.

  One of the most profound themes of the Gospels was Christ?s continual frustration on finding that there was no one who could really understand him, even his disciples had problems. Christ had to lead by walking ahead, utterly alone. This kind of aloneness is "shared" by all who travel on the journey of spiritual growth.

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  myauntfanny 20 years ago

  outbutnotdown

  The one common premise of Christianity is that we are sinners at birth and that we need salvation, otherwise we are disrespecting God.

  I don't believe it either. I don't think we're born perfect, but I don't think being imperfect is a sin. If there is such a thing as "sin", it's presuming to have the faintest idea what god thinks about anything.

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  Gretchen956 20 years ago

  I too don't buy the original sin concept, nor the resultant prudery.

  That Ghandi was pretty cool, he said some profound things. One of the funnier ones was when he visited Great Britain for the first time, a journalist asked him how he liked being in a civilized nation. Ghandi said, "I don't know, do you know of any?"

  No call being so pessimistic and fatalistic, life is short and we should live it to the fullest. My higher power wants me to enjoy it, not deny myself the pleasures in some sort of a half-assed act of contrition and penitance. What a sad way to live your life, no wonder people in that life are so pissed off all the time! (With the exception of LT, of course).

  Sherry

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  Markfromcali 20 years ago

  One has to wonder whether this was the original message, or if it was just the opposite. We know according to the bible that Jesus said you must be like young children to enter into the kingdom of heaven. If we were born sinners then that wouldn't make any sense, as it implies you have to do something to be better or that you are just completely helpless. And yet there is the naivete of childhood as well, which of course lead people to follow religious leaders - but I think most would agree that this statement points to the innocence rather than the ignorance. We might call such innocence spiritual, but what does it mean to be spiritually mature if it is not being wise, basically knowing better and retaining that fresh innocence at the same time? In one sense I would say that not only will some of you who feel that way never be a Christian, but rather nobody was EVER a Christian, or Buddhist, or Muslim, or whatever. Those are merely religious identities, which is just a function of your mind. Yes, you might even go so far as to say it is a way of life, but spiritually speaking what you ARE, what you are being is not the way you live either. If you only address behavior then it does not address existence, being. And that's all these religious identities talk about, they describe the behavior of mind and sometimes way of life depending on how far you take it, but who is it that does that? Children are not born with a religious identity, and to say for example Muslims are born rather than converted is contradictory by virtue of the nature of making such a statement - you were not born with that way of thinking and that identity. So it is people forget that innocence by taking on such identities, that might be considered 'sin' in a way, a kind of missing the mark. In that context spirituality is a kind of remembrance, but not any ideas you learned or any way of thinking, but how you ARE. You can continue to 'practice' whatever religion, but what I am saying here is it involves a conscious recognition that it is only something you do, while staying with that innocence.

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  Markfromcali 20 years ago

  I couldn't seem to add paragraph breaks in the last message or even edit it with a note, sorry about the big chunk format..

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