Were there any cliques in your congregation? (page 2)

Devils Advocate

I'm curious as to the intent of this question? Are you, by asking if there were cliques in the congregation, condemming cliques?

If so, consider that as humans a basic psych. need is to be around others who share the same life values. You will find this in any organization -- business, political, even families have cliques. It is not wrong to want to associate with others of like mind/interest/or personality and the end result-- complain all you want-- is the creation of cliques.

I find it amusing how many of you ex-JW's want to complain about how awful the WT org. is but will do nothing about it -- except post here on this forumn. How many of you have visited JW's at THEIR doorstep to witness to them? How many of you have picketted KH's when an abuse scancal rears it's ugly head? How many of you have written your own articles, tracts, or publications and actually mailed them to JW's? How many of you have coordinated cult awareness programs with local churches in your area?

SAY WHAT YOU WILL, BUT VERY FEW ON HERE HAVE. BTW, I HAVE -- and that doesn't make me a saint or a better person either. It just means I put my money where my mouth is.

Instead you folks want to whine about how bad things are in the WT, create fun little names for the WT, and pat yourselves on the back about how forgiving you are. Self rightousness comes with a cheap price tag.

Oh, and yes, and now you complain about cliques. Whooo-boy...

badboy

I am only enquiring.

BADBOY OF THE ENQUIRING MIND CLASS

Mulan

Of course there was and I was right in the thick of it.

But then as we got older, a younger group started becoming the clique and we were the "older, wiser, generation".

Mike, some of our elders were management types in their work, but by far the majority were blue collar workers like Dave. One of the most powerful elders in our Circuit and in the State was an electrician. Another is a window washer. I think the thing that makes a difference is their availability...............if they can afford to take time off from work.

Undaunted Danny

Roger that Mulan.The most powerful elders in my time were the 'office cleaners' they worked nights and had days off to exercise control over the flock. Comparison of Watchtower 'fellowship' with worldly fellowships.The best support i have ever had,was from my fraternal labor union,(mafia)

This was the true'band of brothers',the brotherhood that provided for my family.It was also the worldly agency that enabled me to make the big bucks,that I in turn was able to donate to the WT$. Final note,I wll close with a scrip:James 2:1-9 Favoritism Forbidden : [ I confronted the body years ago in Florida reg;blatant favoritism and downright scorn for the poor,their reply;" well we have to be careful that 'white trash' doesn't bring the congregation down to it's level "] 1 My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism. 2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3 If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," 4 have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? 5 Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?
8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," [1] you are doing right. 9 But if you show favoritism, you sin........

Doubtfully Yours

Of course, there are in every congregation. You know, the usual, the pioneers, then there are the elders' and ministerial servants' wives club.

My membership card is with the 'spiritually weak' ones; you know, the ones that just use the Org in a social context and nothing else.

DY

jwbot

We had the super spiritual group, the young pioneers group, and the rebels group...no money group because there were no people I would consider "rich". My parents were probably in the top for money made...but we were only middle class, nothing special. I have been to other halls where there were stronger and more vicious groups and a money group. Its no good.

I was even a rebel but did not fit in to the rebel group. Oh well.

jws

When my brother and I were in our mid-teens, we moved to a congregation with more teens. I think it was to provide us with more JWs to associate with because we were spending more time with "worldly" friends from school. Yet with all these kids our age, nobody went out of their way to invite us to their gatherings. We were sort of half-heartedly invited and felt like gate crashers if we went. Then came a botched trip to Six Flags where the clique decided not to go, leaving one lone member who showed up to the meeting place and got stuck with us. We had a blast and when he found out we were into drinking, we were "in" with him. Word travelled back to the rest of the clique. Now they knew we were "cool" and started opening up to us. They were all drinking too and thought it was cool. Things went great until some people felt guilty about and started to confess. Then the original clique repented, reformed and pointed their fingers at my brother and I.

Like "Devil's Advocate" said, cliques aren't unique to JWs. Schools have them, clubs have them, the workplace has them. People find others they are comfortable with and are usually similar to themselves. Strangers and those who are different disturb that comfort level.

All of that's just human nature. However, the JWs say that you can recognize them as the true religion by the love among them. Cliques are divisions. This is evidence that that statement is not true. Other groups (or at least most of the ones I'm familiar with) don't try to deny such realities by making such claims. Cliques are contrary to the image the JWs portray of themselves.

As for Devil's Advocate's statements, I'm not sure he understands JWs. Have I tried to talk to them? Yes. But if you had any experience with JWs, you would know that they would shut me out. My own father threatened to stop talking to me if kept talking to him about religion. We agreed to not bring up the subject. My old JW friends would label me as apostate and would stop talking to me without threats or warnings. If I kept trying, it would be harassment and wouldn't be helping either of us one bit.

Have I organized pickets. No. I haven't heard of any JW child molestors in my area. I could picket them on their teachings. That might raise some questions in the more intelligent ones. But overall, they would see it as persecution and it would further strenghten their resolve that this is the correct religion.

Organizing protests or setting up outreach programs takes a committment of time and a schedule. My free time is more random lately. Sure, I post here from time to time. But that's when it's convenient.

alfie

It would be foolish and arrogant to claim there are no cliques in a congregation. People naturally gravitate to people of similar backgrounds or interests, JW's included. Having said that, it always bothered Mrs. alfie and I that certain congregations seemed to have a bigger problem than others with this issue. It was so bad in one of the halls in which we served, it actually caused such terrific divisions and resentment among the congregation, to the point that an entire body of elders had to be removed and as far as we know, to this day there are still people who refuse to have anything to do with each other and there is actual hatred between them. A sad commentary on a group that claims to follow the words at John 13:35.

CIAO4NIAO!!!

alfie

TresHappy

Here I go again, misreading topic threads again, I thought it said "were there any clinique in your congregation?"

I think all the elders wore make-up!

Preston

I think the presence of "cliques" in any sort of large social atmosphere is typical and healthy. People group together naturally. It offers some degree of solidarity within a large organization, greater ease of functioning within a smaller group, plus greater intimacy. However, JW's are mucho guilty for essentially building an entire structure that forces people into cliques and elevates one group over the other. When I was a kid, I asked an elder at the kingdom hall that if the Bible prohibited "titles" why did they give "titles" like M.S., Pioneer, Special Pioneer, Auxillary Pioneer, District Overrseer, Presiding Overseer, especially since these "titles " were found Nowhere in the Bible. He said something along the lines of that they weren't titles, just labels used to organize people into various positions in the congregation. But that's exactly what Jesus prohibited, and JW's still "mark people", call people "disfellowshipped", "innactive", and "weak". Didn't the pharisees call certain people Amharetes ("people of the earth")? I was a ministerial servant in the congregation but I felt no connection whatsoever with any group in the congregation, I was new, had almost no family, no friends and even after several years, I was still the perpetual outsider. Part of me felt "forced" into that 'clique', since you're always being probed about what direction you need to take in the congregation. It's like being a fish underwater, you move or die. You put yourself within a group or you're Joe (or Josephine) "nobody". So my beef isn't necessarily with single sisters, or Jock ministerial servants getting together, because I think that's typical social behavior, but how the organization forces people to be in "cliques"

Were there any cliques in your congregation?

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