Nourishment for the Spirit

by Maximus 81 Replies latest jw friends

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    The best for understanding Christianity from a historical viewpoint is "The Canon of the New Testament" br Dr. Bruce Metzger, who is an honest Christian who shows the difficulties of fundamentalist interpretation, while revealing a much more sound synopsis of the first three centuries of the church.

    "Catholicism and Fundamentalism : The Attack on Romanism by Bible Christians" was my next best on church stuff. Digs a grave for fundamentalist thinking completely, by Catholics!

    The best on Jehovah's Witnesses from a personal and warm reading, "Visions of Glory" by Barbara G. Harrison.
    http://www.exjws.net/visionsmain.htm
    Randy

  • Maximus
    Maximus

    Beautiful, Alan. You got me started with all this, you rascal. It's been fun and a few more grays. One day the full story will be told. (ED: Just saw your post, Randy; you are special to me too.)

    I've also soaked up Stephen J. Gould and Carl Sagan. Finally finished "The Elegant Universe," a delightful gem on string theory.

    My discovery of the various documents embedded in the Pentateuch was an eye-opener for me too, and my view of the Bible has never been the same. The redactor had no problem fitting them together without explaining the inconsistencies, because he did not see any need to--that's not how the Hebrew mindset worked.

    A book of fact? No.

    Book of faith? Yes.

    That's my take-home message too: It's the journey not the destination.

    Maximus

  • Dogpatch
    Dogpatch

    I just ordered:
    Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the Big Bang to the 21st Century
    by Howard K. Bloom

    looks great as far as the reviews!
    Scientific understanding of biology, behavior and group dynamics is taking great leaps forward. Don't stick your head in the mud of stupid religions like the Watchtower that are merely old men who know the only way they can control you is to keep you in the dark and feed you bullshit and magazines.

    http://www.freeminds.org

  • JAVA
    JAVA

    Interesting thread--thanks!

    For a spiritual read, I enjoyed (and still do) Siddhartha, by Hermann Hesse. It's a classic of one person's journey through life, and reminds me of the hills and valleys traveled as former Witnesses. Hesse wrote many books, but this one's a must read.

    Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, by John Shelby Spong. Spong is a retired Anglican Bishop speaking out about the problems fundamentalism creates for believers in exile. As many reading this forum knows, I'm a born-again agnostic, but this is one Christian book I recommend.

    larc: You said,

    I think for some Witnesses, that ignorance is bliss and they should be left alone.

    I disagree for the following reasons: As you know, Jehovah's Witnesses are not just another religion following their bliss. A religion that enforces shunning harms others. A religion that interferes with medical treatment kills people. A religion that covers up child/sexual/domestic abuse needs exposed whenever possible. Ignorance might be blissful for some, but this religion harms, kills, and abuses. That Bad News of the Watchtower Kingdom should be preached whenever possible.

    Just because a Nazi is happy and well adjusted thinking Hitler is a great guy doesn't mean we shouldn't mess with his myth because Nazism works for him. It's also not up to me to replace a failed myth. "True Believers" can always find another ism to follow without my help.

    That's my Sermon on the Mount, Brother larc. Now what shall we do with the golden calf?

    --JAVA
    ...counting time at the Coffee Shop

  • Tina
    Tina

    Hi Java,
    Excellent reasons on why ignorance is not bliss but can be emotional psychological and physical death.
    I'm always amazed at how people want another belief system handed to them. It's a personal journey that takes time ,effort,personal responsibility. I think some folks are simply intellectually lazy.
    How easy it is to lean on that crutch,how much work and sometimes pain it takes to put it aside and learn to re-use those 'legs again.

    Oh that golden calf? Some earrings wouldnt be a bad idea :D hugs,Tina whose journey led down another path other than the judeo-christian one.

    OOps forgot to mention how influenced I was by Richard Schlagel's The Vanquished Gods.
    It opened my mind to the dramatic shift of our concept of reality,using history science and biblical tenets.That the religious viewpoint has been rendered obsolete by scientific advances.(for me anyway) A great read in accepting the rational compelling evidence of the scientific worldview.Too many other works to name. And each was a stepping stone in my personal understanding of myself and the world.T

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    The question of whether it's a good thing to destroy someone's belief system unless you have something to replace it is a hard one. I don't think that there are any pat answers. For some, it's a good thing and for other's it's bad. It depends on the individual's personality and many other factors.

    One consideration in saying that a replacement belief system ought to be provided is this: Who is to say what is an appropriate replacement system? In demolishing a JW's belief in the Watchtower Society, do we really need to replace it with some other religion? I don't think so. If any 'replacement' needs to be made, it's in replacing the person's narrow world view with something much broader, something that gives the person the opportunity to become a more cosmopolitan thinker.

    I've often used this illustration: Suppose you're walking near a railroad track and you spot someone walking down the track. Then you see that a train is bearing down on him, and you see that he's not noticing the train. Do you look around for another track to tell the person to jump to before you holler, "Get out of the way of the train!"? Do you calmly sidle up to the person and try to engage him in polite conversation preparatory to informing him that a train is about to take him out? I don't think so. You worry about getting him off the deadly track first, and then let him worry about finding another one, if he still wants to walk on a track at all.

    It's similar with religions like the JWs. Do I need to find a replacement religion before I tell someone about JW idiocies?

    Of course, I've oversimplified things to make a point. People's situations are not that simple, and indeed it would be good to have something to replace the JW religion with. But in my view that replacement should be viewed as a temporary stepping stone for the person himself to find a replacement that he is comfortable with.

    Sometimes people who know all the facts still make decisions we might not make for ourselves. Sometimes people remain JWs even though they know all about the Society's lies and wickedness. That's their right, and once we know that we've done our best to inform them, we shouldn't feel too bad if they stick with the JWs. After all, people stick with a lot worse things than the JWs. Look at how some people stick with rabid Fundamentalism. Look at how some stick with other crazy cults.

    In a free culture, the best anyone can do is try to present facts to people and then respect whatever decision they make. Of course, if such decisions also result in the person's causing harm to others, such as the JW's killing people with their blood ban, then that's a different story. Then the poor decisions should be fought against with all proper means.

    AlanF

  • Cygnus
    Cygnus

    In Search of Christian Freedom by Raymond Franz; Atlanta: Commentary Press, 1991 – Written by an excommunicated member of the central authoritative governing body of a well-known religious group, this 700+ page volume discusses the freedoms initially enjoyed by first century Christians and how such freedoms gradually became trampled upon and the scriptures misapplied to give the few great power over the many. Discusses the consequences and rewards of divorcing one’s self from spiritual restraints imposed by men.

    Catechism of the Catholic Church by The Holy See; United States Catholic Conference, 1994 – For a person whose religious heritage was one disposed to ignorantly criticizing and denouncing traditional and historic Christian doctrine, this text was a real eye-opener. Several canned “arguments” given to me by my religious leaders against certain teachings such as the trinity and hellfire were proven to be fallacious in nature. I found myself correcting the elders during ministry school meetings, which is a big no-no! No, I didn’t convert to Catholicism, but I gained much admiration and appreciation for what Catholics really do believe (or at least are supposed to believe!).

    The Jewish New Testament translated by David H. Stern; Clarksville MD: JNT Publications, Inc. 1995 – A version of the New Testament different from all others. It retains and expresses the Jewishness of the original authors of the NT, and frees the NT from standard Gentile-Christian linguistics, culture, and theology. “Jesus, son of Joseph” becomes “Yeshua ben Yosef,” “John” becomes “Yochanan,” “Paul” becomes “Sha’ul,” and so forth. Even the “Holy Spirit” becomes “Ru-ach-Ha Ko-desh.” More than simply emphasizing the original Hebrew terms, however, this version attempts to focus on forgotten aspects of NT teachings in harmony with the Torah – did Messiah bring the Torah to an end, is the Torah legalistic in nature (the works vs. faith issue), the import of the Land of Israel in the New Covenant, etc.

    The Christian Agnostic by Leslie D. Weatherhead; Nashville: Abingdon Press, 1965 – A liberal viewpoint of Jesus’ life and ministry, intended for, well, allow me to let Weatherhead explain: “I am writing for the ‘Christian agnostic,’ by which I mean a person who… though he is sure of many Christian truths, feels that he cannot honestly and conscientiously ‘sign on the dotted line’ that he believes certain theological ideas about what some branches of the Church dogmatize.”

    Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism by Bishop John Shelby Spong; New York: HarperCollins, 1991 – Along the lines of Weatherhead’s book, Spong discusses many alleged teachings and miracles attributed to Jesus, how the Bible’s unscientific nature clashes with twentieth-century knowledge, who St. Paul was and the reasons for his conversion and anti-homosexual stance, and so forth, and an in-depth examination of the gospels under the light of healthy skepticism. The only problem I had with Spong’s work was that by the end I wondered why the heck he was still a Christian!

    Honest to God by John A. T. Robinson; Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1963 – Often spoken of as the predecessor to men like Spong, Robinson takes a critical look at traditional concepts of God as the “invisible man in the sky out there somewhere” from the rather unique position and authority of Bishop of Woolwich in the Anglican Church. Robinson has in fact written many such books, discussing the his perception of the real New Testament hope (he doesn’t accept the teaching of the immortal soul as inherently biblical), the relationship of Christ to God, and our identification of “being” both naturally and supra-naturally.. I once had the privilege of spending a weekend with his cousin, Sir Anthony Buzzard, also an author on such topics.

    The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine; Secaucus NJ: Carol Publishing Group, 1997 – Initially published in 1794, this text is still very relevant when discussing the infallibility and inspiration of the Bible, its authorship, and its definition of God. Paine rejected Christianity, but was not an atheist. He subscribed to the religion of Deism, commonly shared by many of the foremost intellectuals in America and Europe in his time. In my estimation, Paine was one of the greatest thinkers of all time.

    Why People Believe Weird Things (abridged) by Michael Shermer; Los Angeles: Audio Renaissance, 1998 – Shermer is the director of the Skeptics Society, which promotes the scientific method of examination of life’s events. In this book he attempts to demonstrate why it is that so many people find themselves attracted to supernaturalism, conspiracy theories, religious cults, and unconventional, even controversial ideologies. Exposes the misgivings of pseudoscience, occultism, history revisionism, and so forth.

    Billions and Billions – by Carl Sagan; New York; Random House, 1997 – Sagan’s final hurrah, his first measure of business is to explain that it was Johnny Carson, and not he himself, who uttered the famous unending phrase “billions, and billions, and billions…” One has to read this book with a tear in his eye realizing that Carl is gone, and that he wrote the book knowing that his time on earth was short. He applies his vast knowledge of science to matters of everyday life in a manner that only he could – open, inviting, and easy to comprehend.

    Atlas Shrugged – by Ayn Rand, 1957 – Unfortunately, I haven’t finished this gargantuan conceptual piece of non-fiction, and since I’ve lost the damn thing I can’t tell you who published it either! But since I’m about 5/8 of the way through it, I can tell you that it is a masterpiece of dialogue and explicit detail, more so than any other piece of non-fiction I’ve experienced. Rand’s ideology of sheer, uncontested capitalism and unmerciful objectivism hits you like a 12 lb. sledge square between the eyes. The characters in the story are well defined and engagingly charismatic. Even if you are a commie-pinko-fagg*t you will still appreciate this book.

    The Meaning of Anxiety – by Rollo May; New York: W.W. Norton & Co., 1997 – May considers the concepts espoused by men like Spinoza and Pascal, analyzes the causes and reasons for human anxiety, distinguishes between fear and anxiety through socio-psychological interpretations, and concludes that anxiety is a healthful and even necessary aspect of life, challenging the contemporary notions that living free from anxiety leads to greater happiness.

    The Tao of Pooh - by Benjamin Hoff, 1982 - For the searching spiritualist who is just starting out on the long road to self-understanding, this may well be the most important book ever written! Hoof explains the tenets of Taoism using the lovable character Winnie-the-Pooh. If you've been stifled by an oppressive organized religion, eastern thought will be a welcome change for you, and will change your views on life! Learn how to "just be".

    Revelation – It’s Grand Climax at Hand! by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society; Brooklyn, NY: WBTS of NY Inc., International Bible Students Association, 1988 – For a hilarious application of the Apocalypse fashioned after the growing pains of an Adventist sect soon to become the world’s largest publishing agency of religious material, get ahold of this 320 page book of rants, raves, and denunciations against everything from Christendom to the United Nations. Fully pictorialized with some of the most disturbing images you’ve seen since Dante’s Inferno was illustrated!

  • metatron
    metatron

    I read a lot but here's some pivotal stuff.

    "The Dancing WuLi Masters" - got me thinking about
    pantheism

    "Reversing Human Aging" by Michael Fossel - will we
    live to be 500? Don't bother reading the Awake to find out!

    "Synchronicity, Science and SoulMaking" by Victor Mansfield
    examines reality in a way no other book does.

    and
    "Guerrilla Investing" by Peter Siris and
    "What Works On Wall Street" by O'Shaughnessy
    because being spiritual is much easier if you
    have a big pile of liquid assets.

    metatron

  • voltaire
    voltaire

    Excellent question General! Lately I've been reading Meditations by Marcus Aurelius.
    In fact, if it were'nt for The Gladiator movie, I doubt I would have picked it up.(For those who
    haven't seen the movie, Maximus was the general who served under Aurelius. Yes, Marcus
    Aurelius was a real caesar and Commodus was his son.) Marcus Aurelius wrote what
    amounts to a diary filled with his personal musings on life, death and how best to lead
    our lives from day to day.The WTS says that the Bible is filled with the feelings
    and thoughts of men who were like us, but who lived centuries ago and therefore we can
    derive insight on the human condition from those writings. As I read what this man pondered during his life, I am truly
    amazed as I feel myself connecting with a real human being from the past. The language is a bit
    literary and occasionally archaic(there are plenty of footnotes to explain such passages),
    but his humanity shines through. By comparison, many of the dialogues in the Bible seem
    oddly distant and contrived as though filtered by centuries of editing and reworking, more fable than real, down-to-earth
    human preocupations.

    Also I liked Kenneth Miller's Finding Darwin's God. If I hear one more JW speaker say that evolutionists
    are not humble because they don't believe in God, I will be tempted to launch this book from the back row
    It would erase any notion a JW might have that evolution = atheism.

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    To Metatron:

    You've said some things lately that particularly interest me. Please write me at [email protected] .

    AlanF

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