Where's the beef?

by rockhound 12 Replies latest watchtower bible

rockhound

Jehovahs Witnesses look to their Watchtower magazine each week for new light that would set the course for current "Truth". In looking back over the last 40 years of my association, "New Lights" batteries ran out many times and had to be replaced with even newer ones. Some how this made sense to me at the time, but as time past, I began to wonder just how these "New Light" articles could be called meat in due season. Assembly time was always a special time for our family to watch for some new "meat in due season" in some talk delivered by brother Knorr or brother Franz. As time past, and 1975 was thrown on the bone pile of discarded prophecies "meat in due season" became the" big to do over nothing". I asked myself, at the time" What Happened, did the faithful slave somehow mess up? At the time, I did not know about the Society's long history of one disappointing failure after another, so I just shelved my disappointment and continued to look for more "New Light" in the Watchtower like everyone else around me. I remember brother Franz, saying that the faithful slave had provided the right sort of food at the right time. I fully believed this was true for most of my adult life. If what brother Franz said was really true, that the slave provided the right sort of food, then the meat that they served would be something special and different than what was being served by the churches of Christendom. After all, meat served to Jehovah's people would not be tainted and cause them to become spiritually sick, but would strengthen and broaden their faith. My faith was certainly not made more firm as I watched tens of thousands leave the organization because they had trusted the Society as being a special channel somehow to Jehovah. If the "slave" couldn't get it right, and Christendom wasn't serving good meat to their followers, then what do I do? My answer was to try not to dwell on it,shelve it for now, and keep busy and help with the separating work because the generation that saw 1914 would not all die off before the end would come. Then along came 1995 and more " "meat in due season" was thrown on the bone pile of tainted food. I had always believed that the "generation" that saw 1914 teaching was set in concrete, a true anchor for my belief in the Organization as being the link between Jehovah and man. Had I been hasty in placing my whole faith in an organization? More shocking news was on the way that same year, the separating work of the sheep and the goats had not even started yet.What had I been doing all those years going from house to house? Why wasn't the "slave" getting it right? Should I go back to all those people that I had talked to in the door to door work and tell them to disregard what I had said and strike my words from the record? What could I really say to those people if I met them on the street that would make me not sound like a politician. I had always thought that the Governing Body provided "meat" that was far superior to what the churches were teaching, and was something that was special food that Jehovah hadn't let Christendom have. I reasoned that articles in the Watchtower about being faithful to God, reading the Bible, christian living, good works, morality, living in the last days, signs, the preaching work, articles of faith, lessons on loyalty, preaching the good news, were all fine and upbuilding, but were these really the "meat in due season"? How could they be? The churches of Christendom have written tons of articles on these same subjects and we have been told that their articles on the same subjects are not to be accepted, that their writings were not to be relied upon as true "meat" and yet the special "meat" that I had relied upon and that I had taught my children had gone bad somewhere through the years. Even a quick look at what the Organization under the leadership of Russell and Rutherford will show that most of what our long dead brothers in the past preached from door to door and on the street corners as true "meat in due season" has been rejected by the modern Organization as old light. I wondered, if this was really true "meat" direct from Jehovah, what right does any group of men have to say that the "meat" that Jehovah set on the table yesterday if not fit to serve today. Can we take anything from the Bible and say this now longer applies, we will now teach it this way today, and not the way the apostles did it? How many Witnesses today would take us serious if we proclaimed that Charles T. Russel was the "faithful slave", that all the churches fell in 1918, the belhemoth of Job 40 was the steam engine, the lord Jesus was responsible for the "Finished Mystery" or that the faithful men of old named in Hebrews came back to life back in 1925, and yet brothers in the past faithfully preached these things as true "meat in due season" to all they found that would listen. These brothers did not find a hearing ear in Christendom back then, nor would any person today that preached that these statements were untainted food from Jehovah find a hearing ear among modern jehovahs witnesses. These now discarded truths were true "meat" for Jehovah's table to the brothers living back then, just as the discarded true "meat" that I was taught was offered to me as coming from Jehovah. Do we see a recurring pattern here.Where's the beef ?, the "meat in due season" or new light in the Watchtower today?" Meat" that Christendom is not privy to. What is on the table in the Organization that we couldn't find almost anywhere in the churches of Christendom? Love? Fellowship? Unity? Brotherhood? Large Organizations? Assemblies? The Ministry? Loving Families? Purposeful Lives? Its all out there. What do the Witnesses have that is true "meat" that can't be found on TV or radio? Will the real true" Beef" "meat in due season" please stand up, it's a little to foggie to see clearly where your at in the pages of the" Watchtower" "A FAITH THAT CANNOT WITHSTAND A COLLISISON WITH THE TRUTH IS NOT WORTH MANY REGRETS" -- Arthur C, Clark .
ROCKHOUND
Flash
What is on the table in the Organization that we couldn't find almost anywhere in the churches of Christendom? Love? Fellowship? Unity? Brotherhood? Large Organizations? Assemblies? The Ministry? Loving Families? Purposeful Lives? Its all out there. What do the Witnesses have that is true "meat" that can't be found on TV or radio?

Hi and welcome,
The I know most here including myself can totaly relate to your experiance!
I think it's important for us to reconize and separate clear fact from Organization fiction. Our biggest mistake was to be to trusting and 'putting faith in every word,' though I believe the Witnesses have the most important things right. Such as:
- Jehovah is not a trinity
- Jesus is God's first creation
- The Angelic rebellion is the source of all our troubles
- The Great Tribulation and Armageddon are literal and coming
- God will use the worlds governments to destroy world religion
- The Thousand Year reign is real
- The resurrection is the only hope for the dead on earth
- 144,000 are a literal Heavenly Government
- Satan and his Demons have a finite time to exist and will be terminated
These are all things the chuches are not teaching.
Here is another fact - The leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses in modern times are making the same mistakes the ancient Israelites did. They are inflated, self-important, narrow and controlling men who are forgetting how God deals with people of that sort.
SadElder

Flash
My sentiments exactly. Though I tend toward the more cynical when it comes to the current JW self made kings. Thanks for the post.
Carmel

Which proves the old saying that "you can take the kid out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the kid".
carmel
Soledad

I had always believed that the "generation" that saw 1914 teaching was set in concrete, a true anchor for my belief in the Organization as being the link between Jehovah and man.

so did I. If anything else, I knew that would be the case.
Then it wasn't. At the time, I really had no idea what that change in generation really meant. I think that for most of us, it just went straight over our heads. But I knew something big had just happened, and I knew that something was just not right--but I couldn't put my finger on it. It was a feeling rather than a thought.
rockhound

Hi Flash! Thanks for your response to my post. In your comments, you listed nine different things that the Witnesses have right and are all things the churches are Not teaching. I thought I would take a look and see if these nine beliefs are unique to Witnesses.
Jehovah is not a trinity
Jesus is God's first creation
The Angelic rebellion is the source of all our troubles
The Great Tribulation and Armageddon are literal and coming
God will use the worlds governments to destroy world religion
The Thousand Year reign is real
The resurrection is the only hope for the dead on earth
144,000 are a literal Heavenly Government
Satan and his Demons have a finite time to exist and will be terminated 1. Jehovah is not a trinity
The belief that God is a single being is held by both Muslims and Jews,
who insist that Allah and Jehovah are single entities.
It is also held by pseudo-Christian cults such as the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons - - -
and by various aberrant Christian groups who also deny the deity of Christ.
Some Pentecostals claim that God is a single being and
that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God's three "titles" or "offices."
2. Jesus is God's first creation
Immanuel is the highest Spirit that God could create. He is in every way God's most perfect image, so far as any created spirit can possess the Creator's perfection. He is not God, as is so generally taught today by the false religions, but the first created "Son of God", and as such, His highest and most perfect Creature.
Except for the first created Son of God, the entire spirit world was brought into existence not by direct divine creation, as was God's first-born Son, but was called into being through that Son upon Whom God had conferred creative power. Just as a human race has the source of its corporeal existence in the first man of that race, so the whole spirit world owes its spiritual physical existence to Immanuel.
Excerpt from Chapter Two
There is no question that Jesus was the first to be brought forth of all creation. This is not speaking of God playing the part of a son; this is speaking of the first created being. Not a pretend being, an actual created being. The very first, and the only one that God Himself personally created. This very first created being was the pioneer of life, a trail-blazer. Acts 3:15 (Moffatt Translation) says: "and you killed the pioneer of Life?"
of the Book
Spiritual Teachings and Universal Truths 3.The Angelic rebellion is the source of all our troubles
a). The historical Fall - First one third of the angels rebelled against God. They became proud of their own glory and beauty, and sought to displace God on His throne. They corrupted themselves. Second, the first human couple, Adam and Eve, led into deception by the Adversary, also rebelled against God. They disobeyed His commandment and tried to become their own gods.
b). This disobedience brought something completely new into being, which was not part of God's original order. God has not created evil, nor did He create flawed creatures. They flawed, changed and corrupted their own nature. In fact, everything is changed by their choice. All their descendants bear both the image of God and also this corruption. We have children like ourselves.
© 2004 Christian Heritage
2. SOMETHING'S WRONG WITH GOD'S CREATURES.We can be targets of cruel acts from other people or from Satan's rebel army. Both fallen human beings and fallen spirit beings (angels who have rebelled) have the capacity to make decisions that damage themselves and othersSuffering can also be caused by Satan and demons. Job's life story is a vivid example of how a good person can suffer incredible tragedy because of satanic attack. God allowed Satan to take away Job's possessions, his family, and his health (Job 1,2). 4. The Great Tribulation and Armageddon are literal and coming
HOW NEAR IS ARMAGEDDON? Announcing: "FINAL SIGNS... MARCH TO ARMAGEDDON.". The Tim
LaHaye School of Prophecy will convene its first classes in January 2002. ...
They believe that during this seven year period there will be a great tribulation during which time, God will select and seal 144,000 literal Jews (who are sexually celibate) who will take the Gospel of the Kingdom to the whole world, converting innumerable souls to Christ.

The war of Armageddon, a literal war of nations against literal Israel, which occurs near the end of the seven year period, is brought to a halt by Christ's return with His Church. Then literal Israel accepts the Lord as the Messiah and enters with Him as His covenant people into the 1,000 year (millennial) reign on earth, known as the Kingdom Age.
5. God will use the worlds governments to destroy world religion
The divine judgment inflicted follows a pattern and principle. Ancient Babylon was used to bring affliction upon the people of Israel as were Assyria and Egypt, but eventually these same nations that God used were themselves the objects of judgment because they did not act for God, but for themselves.
Verse 17 states the principle that God uses the blasphemous actions of world religions and governments to fulfill His own purposes. The plan of the ages unfolds majestically and Scripture shows that God permits the increasing increments of wickedness until the cup of iniquity overflows, then judgment comes.
In the declaration "God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose," there is another indication of God?s use of the forces of evil as instruments of his own purposes of judgment (Jer 25:9-14; cf. Lk 20:18). Nothing will distract them from their united effort to destroy the prostitute until God?s purposes given through the prophets are fulfilled (cf. 10:7; 11:18). 213
6.The thousand year reign is real
Then when the thousand years are expired, Satan will be released
from his prison and will be allowed to go out and deceive the
nations for a little season.
He will be permitted to go out and deceive the
nations; because there will be nations in the four corners of the
world! The whole world is not going to be destroyed when Jesus
comes. The truth is that Jesus is coming to save the planet! He is
coming to save the world and there will be people still alive in it!
7.The resurection is the only hope for the dead on earth
19. The Resurrections
We believe the only hope of eternal life for mortal man lies in the resurrection; thru the indwelling (now) of the Holy Spirit; and that there shall be a bodily resurrection of the just and unjust?the just to eternal life as spirit beings upon earth, the unjust to receive the second and final death in hell (Gehenna) fire in which they shall perish in eternal punishment.
8. 144,000 are a literal Heavenly Government
Not that 144,000 is a literal number, but it is the number of divine government ascribed to a select called and chosen company who reign with Christ upon His throne. As the spirit of revelation and understanding floods our minds, we are left without question as to the meaning of all this. Notice, now, the position of God?s kings and priests. To him that overcometh to be a son of God is granted to sit with Christ in His throne, even as Jesus overcame and is set down with His Father in His throne (Rev. 3:21; 21:7). The manchild is caught up to God and to His throne and rules all nations with a rod of iron (Rev. 12:5). The 144,000 stand with the Lamb on mount Zion (Rev. 14:1).
You will notice especially that the overcomer sits on Christ?s throne. The manchild rules the nations from the throne of God. The 144,000 reign with the Lamb from the heavenly mount Zion.
Sp
KINGDOM BIBLE STUDIES "Teaching the things concerning the kingdom of God..
9.Satan and his Demons have a finite time to exist and will be terminated
Jesus said that Hell (Hades: lake of fire) was actually created for Satan and his angels, (Matthew 25:41). The tormented souls of the dead will curiously gather to witness Satan?s entry into hell. Isaiah 14:9 declares that "Hell (Gahena: the grave) from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? 11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave."
But one more event must take place. Revelation 20:7, "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison," and will go out again to deceive the earth. This time, however, he will meet his final doom.
I just gathered these off the internet this evening, but I'm sure there are many more to be found. All the nine points above are being taught by the Churches of Christendom ROCKHOUND
seesthesky

u got some formatting issues - can u fix?
Flash

Hi ROCKHOUND,
I just gathered these off the internet this evening, but I'm sure there are many more to be found. All the nine points above are being taught by the Churches of Christendom
I am impressed with your breakdown RH. Yes, the truth about these Bible teachings is out there, the problem is its scattered around. Who else besides Jehovah's Witnesses has them as the FOUNDATION of their faith and loudly declares it? Your point is well taken though, the Witnesses are not the only ones who know Bible truths.
.............................................
ROCKHOUND
I had always believed that the "generation" that saw 1914 teaching was set in concrete, a true anchor for my belief in the Organization as being the link between Jehovah and man.
Soledad
so did I. If anything else, I knew that would be the case.
Then it wasn't. At the time, I really had no idea what that change in generation really meant. I think that for most of us, it just went straight over our heads. But I knew something big had just happened, and I knew that something was just not right--but I couldn't put my finger on it. It was a feeling rather than a thought.
I never accepted the 'new' understanding about 1914 and the Last Generation. I believe the GB to be wrong about their adjusted view. In Matthew 23:36 and 24:34 shows distinctions made concerning some of the things coming upon the people. The way 24:34 reads, "this generation" has clearly a dual application in the prophecies. The GB had it right the first time! The other reasons I reject their currant view is that repeatedly Jesus stressed that we should 'keep on the watch' and emphisized the lateness of the hour of His return. Also, in 24:31 His 'Chosen Ones' are to be 'gathered' before the end comes, 1Corinthians 15:51,52 confirms this. A related side point is the adjusted understanding of the 'Two Feet' of 'Clay and Iron' in Daniels prophecy at Daniel 2:31-35. Shortly before I stopped associating a 'NEW' understanding of the meaning of the Two Feet came out. Instead of the Feet representing the Dual World Powers of USA and England they now represent the WHOLE WORLD at the time of the end...My point is this, I believe the GB has 'blinked' because of the 'Lateness of the Hour' and the End hasn't come yet. I believe they are afraid of an 1975 exodus and are making some foolish pre-emptive moves to avoid one. IMO, they are 'living proof' of what Jesus said, "...at an hour that you do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming." Matthew 24:44
hillbilly

Paragraphs dude, paragraphs!
Hill ( good post man, but my eyes need spaces in the text class)
rockhound

It's important to remember that" a text without a context, is a pretext". When examining any text, expecially such controversial texts as Matthew 23:36 and 24:34 , we need to ask 1. Who was the writer? 2. When was he writing ? 3. What was he trying to convey? 4. Who were the readers? 5. How did the readers understand what was writtened? 6. What was the historical setting? The Who we are concerned with in Matthew 24:32-34 is the generation that Jesus said would not pass away until all these things have happened.
I found the information in the book "Prophecy: the year 2000 and beyond?" by Gene Fadeley quite thought provoking,
his reasoning to be sound, and very helpful in examining the text above.
Please check out the following:

In the Hebrew scriptures, what did the time statements "long time", "at hand", "near", "soon" mean? Note the following examples:
Numbers 24:17--- Balaam prophesied concerning Christ " I see him, but not now, I behold him, but not near", He was speaking 1400
years before Christ, and stated that this event was "not near".
Daniel 8:26--- Daniel was told in a vision (530 BC) about the death of Antiochus (165 B C) "but seal up the vision, for it concerns the distant future" This prophecy was fulfilled 365 years later, and Daniel was told that it concerned "the distant future".
Jer.29:10, 28---Jeremiah told the captives in babylon that "it will be a long time" He was speaking of the duration of their captivity that lasted 70 years....Jeremiah, as Gods spokesman, told the people that it was a long time when its duration was 70 years.
If 1400 years is "not near", 365 years is in "the distant future", and 70 years is a "long time", then what does "at hand", "near", and "soon" mean? These statements are used repeatedly in the new testament. If something is not at least within the lifetime of the individual, it is not "near".
In Matthew 24: 32-34, how did Jesus use the word "near"? He said "Now learn this from the fig tree: As soon as it's twigs get tender, and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened". The events Jesus described would occur in the first century during the lifetime of some who were standing there.
Jesus, immediately before he was crucified instructed, " Go into the city to a certain man and tell him, "the teacher says: My appointed time is near. I am going to celebrate the Passover with my disciples at your house". (Matthew 26:18) Jesus was in the last week before his death.
The night before he was crucified, Jesus returned to the disciples and asked to them "Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners". The word "near" was used to denote a short period of time in that first century generation.
Jesus answered the disciple's Questions in Matthew 24 and he described all the events that would occur in the destruction of the temple, city of Jerusalem, land of Israel, and the ending of the old covenant system. He declared "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened".
These terrible events were to occur in the first century during the lifetimes of some of the people to whom he was speaking. That is why Jesus, on his way to his death turned to the woman and said to them "Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me: weep for yourselves and your children".(Luke 23:28) He knew how badly the Romans would destroy the rebellious Jewish nation within forty years in AD 70.
We must understand what the text meant, before we can possible make any present day application. Peter stated "the end of all things is near" (1 Peter 4:7) The Jewish nation was not expecting the destruction. The Christians though, were expecting the destruction even though they would not know the day of hour. Jesus told his disciples "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written" (Luke 21:20-22)
The first century Christians were to expect these events to occur within some of theior lifetimes. Jesus said to them,"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened". (Matthew 24:34) These events happened in the first century.
Some hold that a transition occurs in verse 36, to change from the discussion of the destruction of Jerusaleml to a discussiion concerning the end of the world. There is nothing in context that has anything to do with the destruction of the earth or the universe. The destruction of the earth or universe is not to be found in the questions of the disciples, nor in the answer of Jesus. The age that was about to end was the Jewish age. Jesus had one focus. There was no transition away from that main topic. END QUOTE
Remember,if we pull a scripture out of it's context we can jump to all kinds of conclusions, as the Society has, and end up with a lot of egg on our face. For a long time now, the Society, as well a many other religious groups have been reading these scriptures this way and that, with disasterous results. The lights went out for thousands of Witnesses in 1914, 1925, etc.etc.etc. Each time the announced END didn't come the brothers packed up their spiritual bags and hit the road. Been there, Done that.
I hope you find this information useful. ROCKHOUND

Where's the beef?

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