In my moms last letter she stated that me, my sister and her should all just "move on" meaning put our hurts and anger behind us and work towards having better relationships. However, in the same letter she clarified that disfellowshipping is "discipline" and she intends to continue shunning me. So I wrote back asking her what "moving on" means for her. She neatly avoided the real question and talked about how my sister should get over all the things she's mad at our mom about. So this is my response to her. Any thoughts? "In my letter I asked you what it meant for you to move on in relation to your need to continue "disciplining" me. That's why I asked you to clarify again what it meant for you. Basically, I am to understand that my sinful acts and my ongoing choice to not be a JW will never be behind us. But every hurtful thing you have done should be behind us. Is my understanding about that correct? I am not trying to be belligerent. It just strikes me as a double standard. You guys fight in courts for religious freedom - yet I am not granted the same freedom to choose differently without the threat of losing family, friends and eternal life. I don't know if you belonged to another religion before you joined the witnesses - but lets say for argument sake that you did. Lets say that I have joined whatever religion that is and they tell me that I should not speak to you or have contact with you because you left them and you sin by being associated with the witnesses. And because I want to please God, I do so. That scenario, I'm sure, strikes you as insane and ludicrous. But for the witnesses to do it - it is perfectly sane and the biblical Truth. Imagine if all religions did that what a lovely (3rd) world it would be. Anyway that's my point and my question. As moot as it may be."
What kind of JW response do you think I'll get?
by Bubbamar 33 Replies latest social family
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kls
I think it is great but remember who and what are are trying to communicate with, a JW. It sounds like she wants to put the hurt feelings behind about the cruelty she has done by being your mother and she want's you-re sister and you to forget, but she does not mean anything JW related that stands and always will.
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kgfreeperson
I'll be interested in others' suggestions, but I think the letter would be most powerful if you end it with "Is my understanding about that correct?"
I think if you continue, you will give her things to distract herself with and to attack you with. Keeping it specifically to what she means by what she said will at least give her an opportunity to face what she is saying--or at least a logical inference from what she is saying/doing.
Best of luck with this. I admire you for keeping yourself open to a relationship with her! -
kgfreeperson
Oops, I didn't answer the question, did I. I think maybe you'll get a "but my offenses were only against you, imperfect humans, while your offenses are against Jehovah . . . ."
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darkuncle29
I'm really sorry for you, and I wish you the best possible out come of this.
This next is just my dyslexic $.02.: When dealing with an unreasonable--irrational mind, one must be aware that that mind has its own internal rational. No power on this planet can force her mind to change, she has to do it herself. Until she sees that her internal rational does not meet with common external rational, she is stuck.
What I think this means? Borrowing the "Pirate Code", that you MUST infact do nothing--where she is trying to impress upon you that you MUST come back to Jehobah. You actually have many options of how you could act. Some might hurt emotionally more than others, but you can not let her JW mind limit your options.
You could just go on and behave as if nothing has happened.
you could shun her.
You could keep pounding at her with JW-antibodies and vitamins (now in easily chewable tablets).
you can likely think of many more, some simple and some not. I'm not a complete heartless bastard, i know that you love your mother. But do you love her enough to let her go for a while? To let her learn her lessons from her mistakes? I think it is important that you just take care of YOU. Your mom is doing this because she loves you, and in her own little rationale, she is right.
I don't know why I wrote all this out, maybe for myself too.
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Happy Guy :)
Hard to say from your info. I guess it all depends on whether your Mom is truly able to face the truth or whether she would prefer to lie to herself. You can't get blood from a stone....question is: Is she a stone?
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garybuss
My message to all Jehovah's Witness group members who shun me is this; As long as you shun me, I shun you, I hereby place all future initiation of contact on you. Call me when you decide to turn into a decent human. -
95stormfront
I think maybe you'll get a "but my offenses were only against you, imperfect humans, while your offenses are against Jehovah . . . ."
If that's the case, then, why is it that one must submit tho the harsh judgements of imperfect humans within the JW organization. Why not leave my "offenses against jehovah" between me and him and let him be the final judge as to how he'll discipline. isn't she askiing for the same forgiveness from an imperfect human tht she expects to get from jehovah?
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jgnat
Ummm, by writing such a letter, it seems your mother is reminding you that you are not behaving as a good Jehovah's Witness child should. As usual, she is absolving herself of all responsibility by putting all the onus on her children to change. She is still deluded that she can influence the behavior of anybody but herself. This is a great opportunity for you to declare your adulthood. The truth, Bubbamar, is that you are your own person, responsible for your own actions. Perhaps you can help her along in her understanding of this great truth.
How about something like this..."I am glad that you are concerned about my spiritual welfare. I agree that all relationships work better when the past is put behind us. I want to reassure you that I have put a great deal of thought in to why I left the watchtower society, and I have come to a peaceful conclusion that I am better for leaving. I am secure in my relationship with Jehovah away from the society, and I will never return. I live in the hope that you can lovingly accept my decision, and reconcile yourself to me regardless of my standing with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. I wait patiently for your love, ...."
How will she respond? From a direct confrontation, she will probably retreat in to more JW blather along the lines of "So when will you be returning to the Truth? There is not much time left..." or retreat in to tears and talk about her hope to have all her children around her in Paradise.
If it were me, I would continue to thank her for her love (hidden behind the blather). That part is speaking to her soul. On the guilt-trip part, I would respond with the same words until she gets it (this works on vaccum salespersons too).
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Bubbamar
I shouldn't have hit 'send' so quickly. Damn! You guys are so smart. Thanks for all the wise reminders.
Below is her response. Typical JW cult rant. Interesting how she asks me to "move on" and put the past in the past and brings up -in detail- my most shameful moments from 18 years ago. Also interesting that she tells me not attack her beliefs...in the midst of attacking mine (of which she knows nothing about). Arggggh!
Gnat - I think I will quote from you word for word! Beautiful suggestion. And Dark Uncle - you are right - I have to let her go to be a JW if that's what she chooses.
HappyGuy - She is clearly a stone! lol
She says I'm still a JW?!?!?! WTF???!?!?
As for your disfelloshipping, this is set out in the Bible and is not something that we made up. You may have been too young to be baptized, I thought so but you didn't. Whether you were or not, when the brothers had their meeting with you, they shared with you the consequences and showed you why your behavior was wrong. You refused to listen. Richard knew better. The scripture that says that what God has joined together, man should not put apart was one they shared with you. You said that didn't apply because Richard wasn't one of Jehovah's Witnesses. They pointed out that that applied to any marriage. They said that Richard would not be content until he had had more than XXXXX with you. You said your love was pure & that he wouldn't do any such thing. I remember one of the brothers who spoke up and said as a man--not an elder--that that was imposible. Once he had had a taste of the fruit, he would not be content until he had it all! You were gullible but I'll use an illustration of Adam & Eve--they were the first ones disfelloshipped. Eve,being younger than Adam did not have the experience that Adam had & yet when Satan ask her if it was so that they could not eat of the tree, she added on the the command. Jehovah said not to eat the fruit or die. She told Satan that they were not even to touch the tree. Then Satan told her a lie that made Jehovah look like he was witholding something good. He said that she would not die & further that if she ate, she would be like God and be able to judge for herself what was good & bad. She convince Adam to take the fruit but he knew exactly what he was doing He chose Eve & rejected Gods right to rule over them & give them loving guidance (who knew better what was best for them: Jehovah who had been around forever or two people who had only lived a short time as Jehovah measures time. ( a thousand years as one day to Jehovah! Would you expect a three year old to make a wise decision?) Like you, they had been told what would happen if they did not obey--they would die. Interestingly, you might enjoy reading this since it shows that each evning Adam had personal conversations with Jehovah so Jehovah had a warm & persoanl relationship with them. They ate of the fruit, they were thrown out of their "model home" (they were to turn the rest of the earth into a beautiful paradise like their home. Adam recived the most desicipline--for all ages everyone would know that we grow old & die because of him. He was told that working the land would no longer be easy for him & Eve was told that the pangs of birth would greatly increase. And, of course, they could never return to their garden home. Jehovah never spoke to Adam after that. Spoke to their children but never Adam & Eve. You ask what kind of world this would be? If everyone lived by the Bibles standards, we would have no babies w/o mothers or daddys. We would have no stealing, murder, wars, divorce or any othere problems as it will be in the New System. That would really be a bad world, wouldn't it? God has always worked with one person, Abraham or group-the Israelites. They were his convenant people until they rejected His son. Then he made a convenant with those who followed Jesus. Look at the universe, Marla, there is so much order there. People here have spent melliums doing things the way they want, telling the Creator how they will worship him--would dare to go before the President & tell him what laws you would obey & which ones he should get rid of? Look at the world we live in, Marla. We are rapidly headed towards our own destruction on this Planet Earth, if God doesn't step in and put and end to it all. Read Rev 11:18. Jehovah is the only one who has the right to govern us along with his Son, Jesus. Man will never bring real peace to this earth--people are too greedy & selfish--even if they brought about a World Rule--it would be rife with bribery, stealing, lying & all the rest. You can believe whatever you want to, Marla. I will answer your questions. Don't please attack my beliefs. My are firmly based on what the Bible says. We use the Bible like a text book--they more we study it, the more we learn about our Creator & His wonderful purpose for us. I want to be in that New Earth. I want to raise your big, little brother. I want him to grow up never knowing the fears we have know. He will never have to worry about someone molesting him. He will never have to worry about dying in a war or being shot on the streets for his shoes or money for drugs. Can your beliefs promise that? The Spanish phrase measures litterally means:Dear girl. Doesn't sound like much in English but is meant nice in spanish. More later. Went to eat. Disfelloshipping is a discipline Like Adam, you are cut off from any guidance or protection from Jehovah. You are not allowed any felloship with your brothers. You are & always will be one of Jehovah's Witnesses just and the Israelites were always Gods people even when they became so disgusting that he allowed them to be taken into slavery. They continued to be His people untill they rejected His Son. If you ever decided that you wanted order, peace & the wonderful hope of the New System, you would be one of his people with full privileges--the greatest one being that of a relationship with Jehovah. I prefer that to the kinds of religion that are out that that will condone anything that will get them enough contributions from the people! As the Bible says about the last days--people would look for ones who would tickle their ears! We have well over 2000 different religions--some came about because there were disagreements within one & so some left and started their own church--but all wanting to tell the Creator of the Universe how they will worship God! How arrogant of them. What kind of government would we have if everyone decided what laws they would or would not obey? It's called anarchy. Same goes for relligions that think they can obey whatever of Gods laws they want & reject the others. Or even to take some parts of the Bible & say it is not needed. All I ask is that you think about this. please? I love you but I know what will happen to you when this system of things goes down. Before it ends this earth will know anarchy & then God will bring an end to it all. Those that want to accept his rule will have ever lasting peace, no old age, & no death. Can your beliefs give you that? I think that this is all either one of us can deal with right now. Jehovah does love you. But he will always keep his Word. I did not like the discipline I gave you or your sister but because I loved you I did & if you remember, I always kept my word and I didn't back down-- even when your father would ground you and then forget about it because he knew I would hold you to whatever he ordered. Sometimes you learned something from the descipline. I love you, Mother