The Stem Cell experiment, good or bad? (page 4)

Midget-Sasquatch

Let me start off by saying that I'm for stem cell research.

But I'd have to disagree with the viewpoint that the zygote or ball of undiferentiated cells is not a life. Its not a "life" as in say a person or fetus. If that's what is meant then I see can that. But its as much a life as any other living thing.

That said, I believe that procuring these zygotes should be done in a dignified manner like organ donation. Using unwanted embryos in stem cell research is attributing them a greater value than just destroying them.

Abaddon

Brummie

for some reason the stem cell issue scares me and I dont think I could support it, taking some voiceless life to improve another, maybe I am misinformed? it all seems unethical

IF abortion is unethical, then stem cell research using stem cells taken from embryos is unethical. If abortion (at an early stage) is ethical, there is no mortal issue with stem cell research.

StinkyPantz

Yup, apart from using 'nondescript' instead of 'undifferentiated', you're spot on. Once a cell has differentiated it (normally) cannot ever be or divide into anything other than the type of cell it has differentiated into.

They are already looking at using autologus stem cells http://my.webmd.com/content/article/31/1728_76251

heathen

I personally think that stem cell research is a little too much like playing God .

As god isn't playing god we may as well. For the 'playing god' argument to work it actually has to BE an argument, and without satisfactory definitions of 'god' and what god should 'play' (which are obviously impossible to define), the statement is not an argument but is a logical fallacy; Appeal to Tradition.

blondie

Did you figure out if it was me for President and you for Vice-President or vice-versa? I'm more than happy to take the back seat!

I wonder if some of these same arguments were used when organ transplants were first started?

Yes, they were.

glitter

I was responding to comments in turn and saw you had the same thought as me!

SixofNine

Brummie, I agree, and what about those awful women who eat life (sperm) just for their sick sexual thrills?

That one deserves a drink some day...

Sam Beli

[adult] stem cells are plentiful and avoid political and religious objections.

I think you'll find that adult stem cells are not at this time as useable in research. Do you think scientists are silly or something? Why do you think they want to use ones from fetuses? Please be careful, you might mislead people with statements like that.

Dirt Rocker

When an organism stops respiring, the cells do not magically all die at the same instant. Life is an organic process that continues for sometime after the organsim is what we would call 'dead'.

Well a fetus is living.

So is a cat. Or a cow. Or a pet rat. And, although it might be 'offensive' to say it, a pet rat has more neural tissue (brains etc.) than an early term fetus. You are not 'killing a little human being', unless you believe there is something 'outside' of the body or 'invisable' in it that gives it humanity. Our humanity seems to come from our minds, and early term fetuses have less minds than pet rodents.

Midget-Sasquatch

But its as much a life as any other living thing.

Mmm... life, as we know it, is characterised by MOTION, REPRODUCTION, CONSUMPTION, GROWTH and STIMULUS RESPONSE . Groups of cell, whilst being 'live' do not sometimes qualify as 'life' by the above definiton.

SixofNine

:But its as much a life as any other living thing.

No, it isn't. The most ferociously christian, emotional, baby lovin', room decoratin' woman in the world sheds not one tear when her body "aborts" an embryo at the developement stage of an "embryo" that we are talking about here (even calling it an embryo overstates the case). And that very thing happens naturally about half of the time that an "embryo" is formed in a woman. What's more, we can grow these cells the same way we grow cells for all types of medical research right now, so if we are "playing god", then so what? Are we "playing god" when we do anything positive for humanity that overcomes nature's problems?

If you're going to play god, then goddammit play like a nice god who wants to solve mankinds problems.

BrendaCloutier

In my understanding, based on what my father-in-law (a physician) told me, stem cells are from furtilized eggs that have not yet developed into a foetus. There is a stage in development post fertilization where the cells are simply dividing and there is no recognizable form yet. This is called a Zygote, and this is where much of the source for stemcell research comes from. It is of human, but there is no way it can be recognized as human.

Basically what has been posted here, hearsay and scientific explanation, is what I understand it to be, too.

I believe it is good.

Brenda

PS I don't believe in abortion, so I won't have one. But I cannot and will not THUMP my beliefs on someone else, nor vote for legislation on them. Same is true for me on other personal issues such as gay rights and gay marriage, etc. So because I will not THUMP, I am Pro-Choice.

jws

How can one get LIVE stem cells from a dead fetus?

Just because the fetus is dead doesn't mean all of it's cells are.

A fetus is a complex machine. There are all kinds of components that have to be working together to keep it alive. If a component fails, the whole machine may die, but that doesn't mean each component is dead. Think of a car. Maybe you forget to put oil into it and the cylinders grind to a halt. That piece of the engine failed and the car dies. It doesn't mean the spark plugs are bad. It doesn't mean the carburator is unuseable. The battery may be just fine too.

The cells in your body are components and can go on living after you yourself die. In the same way you can donate your organs after you die to somebody else. Without continued nourishment, the cells in your body will die too. But they don't die immediately with you.

Midget-Sasquatch

But its as much a life as any other living thing.

Mmm... life, as we know it, is characterised by MOTION, REPRODUCTION, CONSUMPTION, GROWTH and STIMULUS RESPONSE . Groups of cell, whilst being 'live' do not sometimes qualify as 'life' by the above definiton.

True enough, which is why I should correct my statement to "But its still alive like any other living thing." -which wouldn't affect/alter any of my other points. But here's something to mull over.

The zygote consumes the stored energy from the ovum. Cell multiplication is growth. The cells within the zygote respond to chemical factors from adjacent cells and they influence the differentiation of each other. Now just because that biological entity at that stage, is not yet developed into the form where it will have motion or later reproduction, one can technically draw the line at that point. I can see your point. Its a logical and objective spot to choose IMHO. But taking all the other criteria into consideration, I don't think biologists would generally deny that zygotes are a form of life, only because its at an early stage that doesn't manifest all the criteria.

Sixofnine

What's more, we can grow these cells the same way we grow cells for all types of medical research right now, so if we are "playing god", then so what? Are we "playing god" when we do anything positive for humanity that overcomes nature's problems?

Re-read my post. I'm all for stem cell research. I've got no qualms with the use of these cells because IMHO destroying them cheapens life more than using those cells to help others.

The fact that abortions naturally occur, even say more than half of the time,only speaks to imperfections of the whole system. I'm the last person who'd say its all sacred. But just because living things are easily snuffed out doesn't negate them being alive for a time. I want to be clear, I'm not equating their use to killing a person because biologically speaking it hasn't reached that stage yet. But I still think zygotes are alive and a form of life.

SixofNine

Yes well, so was the chicken you had for lunch ;-)

:only speaks to imperfections of the whole system.

I don't know from "imperfections" (though I used to think I did). I do know that that is just how it is.

StinkyPantz

Care about the living, then I'll believe you when you claim to care about life.

Right on!

Mary

SixofNine said: Every sperm is precious you know

I thought it was "Every sperm is sacred"

heathen

SLH --- I think it stinks that people consider voting on issues as a waste of time . I used the word representative because it's a fact . We elect people to represent each state in washington ,this is not a decision for the president even . IMO the president does not have the job of making law , he is more a figure head of the republic , the senate makes the laws the congress appropriates funds and votes whether or not it is constitutional , the president does have a veto .I think if we even just used the political holidays we already have to take time to vote on issues so as to have a more accurate idea of what it is the people support ( since we are paying for everything ) the system would work more democratically and less like a monarchy . If you watch a movie called , who killed liberty vance , with jimmy stewart and john wayne I think you will get the idea of how the system is designed to work .

I think so far there is way more to the issue of stem cell and so far all that has been posted are arguments that are one sided and only have some facts supporting opinions rather than looking at all the facts .

Playing God is a bad thing when human lives are lost in the process .

The Stem Cell experiment, good or bad?

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