Are JWs "Approval Whores"?

by Scully 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Happy Guy :)

  That's a very good point to raise Special K. This X-mas thing becomes an issue for everyone sooner or later. I have always celebrated Christmas and it was never an issue until me and my siblings became adults and the family expanded with in-laws etc. Sooner or later you come to a point where you have to weed out who you will visit, who you will simply send a card to and who actually gets a present.

  This is what I do (I don't know if it will help but maybe others will have suggestions too):

  -send everyone a card that way if you don't get a chance to see them in person your ass is covered.

  -don't spread yourself thin on Christmas...keep it to one household (home) and maybe one visit to a nearby relative. Save others visits for another day like the day after Christmas.

  -buying presents becomes a major hassle when families expand because it takes alot of time in the stores shopping and at Christmas it's already busy in stores. Mostly, present giving is fun for the children. Once one becomes an adult they realize the most important thing about Christmas is sharing time with loved ones (presents are fun too but they are secondary). Reserve your time for present shopping for the children. For the adults and extended family do a "Chris Kringle" i.e. you put names in a hat and everyone draws only one name. This is a massive savings of time. Also everyone has to agree on a dollar maximum for the Chris Kringle and stick to it. Instead of shopping for 5 or 6 in an extended family you are now shopping for only 1. At first it may feel strange but once you realize that every year you are finished your shopping early and can actually enjoy the season you will love it and everyone else probably will too.
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  Tim Horton

  I really enjoyed your post. I can't sleep. It's 2:00 am and feel kind of tearful. I was thinking about the lord's prayer and what it means. I read your post and it really picked me up. My hubby and I are just leaving the Jw's so this is all new to me. What you wrote sure did make sense though. I find I have very low self esteem but never attributited it to the truth. If my spelling is bad its because it's very late. You sound like one smart, experienced lady. Thanks Tim Horton's wifey. I do plan to get my own alias/name or whatever ya call it. We're just having trouble setting it up. Maybe you can help me about the Lord's prayer. Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. If there isn't a new system, then what does that mean? I have so many doubts about the society but that one still stumps me. I don't know if I quoted that part exactly correct it's kind of late, but you get the idea. Anyways talk to you later.
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  Scully

  Hi there Mrs Tim Horton

  It's great to see you posting here!
  

  Maybe you can help me about the Lord's prayer. Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. If there isn't a new system, then what does that mean?

  Well, this is just how I feel about things. If it works for you, then that's great, but if not, that's ok too.

  You asked If there isn't a new system, then what does that [the Lord's Prayer] mean? I guess it would help if I knew for sure one way or the other that God actually exists. It makes all the difference in the world in how a person responds to the Bible.

  Personally, I don't view the Bible as being "God's Instruction Manual for Life", as the Society is so fond of saying it is. As a woman living in the 21st century, I actually find many parts of the Bible to be extremely offensive to women. The apostle Paul recommends that women should keep silent - not express their opinions - and should be in subjection to their fathers or husbands. He also reprimands women who wanted to wear gold and silver and style their hair - how oppressive is that?? The Hebrew Scriptures - the Law that was supposed to have been given to Israel by Jehovah - say that the father of a girl who is raped should be paid by the rapist for the "bride price" and he was to be given the girl in marriage and he could never divorce her. How does your sense of justice respond to the notion that a rape victim should have to spend her whole life living with and being married to and bearing children for her rapist?? Does that seem to you like a "loving arrangement" from Jehovah?? Those certainly aren't the conditions I would want for myself or for my daughters. Passages in the Bible like those don't give me any confidence in the claim that the Bible is inspired by God, but they do make sense in terms of a patriarchal society that viewed women as nothing more than mere chattel or property.

  I'm going to rephrase your question a little and then give you something to think about: If there is no New System, then what? Let's just assume that there is no New System. What would be the best thing that you could be doing today? What would you want to get out of your life? When you were a little girl, what did you want to be when you grew up? What dreams and goals have you put on hold in your life as a JW, thinking that you could do all that in the New System??

  The fact is, all we really have is today, and we have to live today and make plans for our future, we can't dwell in the past or be paralyzed by an intangible future.

  When you have an answer to those questions, you'll know the answer to your real question: If there is no New System, then what?

  Love, Scully
• 

  La Capra

  Maybe you can help me about the Lord's prayer. Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. If there isn't a new system, then what does that mean? I have so many doubts about the society but that one still stumps me.

  When I left (at age 19), I left fully imprinted with black and white thinking. Any situation could be viewed only one way: all right or all wrong (JW mentality). Falling into this mindset is the most common way I regress. But deep down, I know that this mindset is ALL WRONG (tee hee...)

  This part of the prayer does not have to mean that all the Earth is doing God's will, or that God intends his will to be demonstrated in the same identical way in everyone.

  One single person doing God's will is the fulfillment of this prayer. Which means this prayer is answered billions of times a day, whenever anyone says a little prayer or blessing, does something kind, stands up for injustice, gives a handful of change to a homeless person, comforts a crying child, appreciates the beauty of nature, you catch my drift? You can view this part of the prayer as God's assignment to you to do holy things right now, here on Earth (just like they do heaven...)

  When Jesus "gave" this prayer, he was not giving any new prayer. This was the way the Jews prayed for ages. He is outlining the structure: Honor God, honor God's presence, ask for stuff (food, healing, blessings, a new car), ask for redemption and forgiveness, ask to be protected, It wasn't the be all end all prayer of promise of a new system.

  (As an aside-I try to remember if the prayers at meetings and assemblies followed a similar structure, and I can't-but I think they sorta did. I do remember, though is that we were told to constantly pray, but were never really taught how to have a personal prayer practice....)

  Wifey-I encourage you to begin enjoying the shades of grey as you journey beyond the WTBTS. It is a never ending reminder of the freedom thought you now have.

  Take care, Shoshana
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  teejay

  It's normal to seek others' approval. There's nothing wrong with that. Most people naturally want to be liked. People who don't have at least some measure of that need to want other's approval end up doing horrendous things to the general population.
  
  "Normal" religion itself even takes advantage of this universal human tendency, helping believers to rein in otherwise unhealthy impulses ? to the betterment of the group, not to mention society at large.
  
  By their very nature, high-control groups like Jehovah's Witnesses corrupts that natural desire people have to want approval and heightens it, making the adherent pathologically obsessed with seeking the approval of their fellow believers and leaders.
• 

  Scully

  teejay:

  It's normal to seek others' approval. There's nothing wrong with that. Most people naturally want to be liked. People who don't have at least some measure of that need to want other's approval end up doing horrendous things to the general population.
  
  "Normal" religion itself even takes advantage of this universal human tendency, helping believers to rein in otherwise unhealthy impulses ? to the betterment of the group, not to mention society at large.
  
  By their very nature, high-control groups like Jehovah's Witnesses corrupts that natural desire people have to want approval and heightens it, making the adherent pathologically obsessed with seeking the approval of their fellow believers and leaders.

  Here's a shock: I agree with everything you said.

  Perhaps what we are dealing with is range or a spectrum of "approval seeking behaviour". Like you said, it's perfectly normal for people to want to be liked and accepted, and to do things willingly to gain the approval of others. This is opposed to the same behaviour given begrudgingly or with ulterior motives - have you ever met anyone who appears to be the nicest, most generous person in the world, only to have them ask a favor of you that you could not, for whatever reason, do for them, and they then turn on you with their running inventory of good deeds that you "owe" them for??

  As you said, at one end of the spectrum you've got people who have no need for approval, and they do horrible destructive things to other people. I don't think anyone would dispute this as being dysfunctional.

  I think it is possible - whether the need to seek approval is corrupted (and the way you put it is excellent) to this point or whether it's endemic in the individual - to go to the other extreme: everything they do is motivated by a desire to gain the approval of someone else, their need for approval is so great and so intense and pathological, that they are willing to do things that a normal person would never do in order to achieve the perception they desire of being "approved" by someone. This kind of dysfunction is dangerous too - otherwise you wouldn't have people murdering other people at another person's command. It's that kind of pathology - if the WTS were ever inclined to issue a directive to JWs to execute DFd and DAd people, for instance - that would get a person to cross that ethical line.

  Love, Scully
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  minimus

  My mother is an "approval whore".
• 

  Flash

  Are JW's Approval Whores???

  I'd have to answer with a RESOUNDING YESSS!!!

  Some of us fear that if we begin voicing disagreement, we'll lose our friends and family. If this is true for you? if these people accept you only because you agree with everything they say?they're not friends or family , they're just customers from whom you regularly obtain your favorite drug. This is a thoroughly unhealthy situation.

  Oprah has it right!