Raymond Franz

After I saw your post I took a wee peek at the old site, and stumbled across that.
I would consider the following reservations, assuming the "days" of Daniel are in any way related to our day:

It's based on an assumption, that the prophecy relates to the Dome of the Rock
(the JW's think it relates to their conventions, because they "found" a pattern in dates, too)
The dating of the "Dome of the Rock" start point is wrong (started in 687 - finished in 691). It need only be wrong by one year to be wrong. To make excuses for that is a slippery path of apologetics.
(the JW's made a similar mistake with 607BC)
There's a patchwork of text used to make the point such as days representing years and the 12 year majority (?) thing
(the JW's do that, too, regarding days/years and the meaning of a "generation" - they used some arbitary age thing, but dropped it as the date got closer. It became people who were born in that year, and then something far more arbitary)
A "maximum" date is given, inspiring a concern for the nearness of the day. It could just as easily have an end point of 80 years after 1993 = 2073.
(the JW's do that too, but had to dismantle the idea in 1995, after so many failed dates - they now seem to be setting up 2034)
An emphasis is often put on dates, leading to disappointment when they pass and a knee-jerk reasserting of new dates, and a de-emphasis on what should actually be focused on.
(the JW's have done that time after time, between 1879 and 2004 leading to them looking more and more silly)

So the basic premise is not a new one. In fact it's nearly as old as mankind (Gen.3:15; 4:1).
Having researched the history of the Jehovah's Witnesses (JW's) and a few other similar cults, it seems to be a common pattern of usage, hence I don't really go for that kind of thing anymore. It holds no interest.
The day will come, but it could be as far in the future as when our sun naturally goes supernova.
Meanwhile, how are we living now?
Where do you get the dates 2020 and 3000 from?

The pics are great, by the way.

Regards to Norval - how is he doing?
I'm heading up to the Puget Sound, later this year...

LittleToe

A very recent thread makes mention of the JW 2034 thang:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/26/79664/1.ashx

Navigator

Good Post Ross! There is a line in A Course in Miracles who goes, "The end of the world will not be its destruction but its translation into heaven." We do need to focus on how we are living now. Living in the future is a distraction that prevents us from living fully in the now.

FieryIce

This just graphs out the things we know, like when Israel was given back their lands in 1948; from there we can extrapolate when the daily sacrifice was taken away, and prior to 1993 (the 1,335th day / year) we were able to keep watch on what was happening.

Ross, why do you include all that JW stuff in your post, if you are no longer a JW wouldn't you have tried to get over the JW experience and move on?

LittleToe

Gale:

This just graphs out the things we know, like when Israel was given back their lands in 1948; from there we can extrapolate when the daily sacrifice was taken away, and prior to 1993 (the 1,335th day / year) we were able to keep watch on what was happening.

Actually all you know is the historical facts of the Dome of the Rock being built from 687 - 691, the forging of a modern Israeli homeland, and the return of Russian Jews after the cold war ended.
You also have a smattering of out-of-context texts, which are at odds with Paul's comments about him living in the last days.
When 2026 and 2073 comes and goes, there's always the opportunity of doing what the JW's are currently doing, and using the 120years of Noah's time to slide the timescale to 2113AD (1993 + 120 years). Neither of us are likely to be around for that, though.

Ross, why do you include all that JW stuff in your post, if you are no longer a JW wouldn't you have tried to get over the JW experience and move on?

Well, given that this forum is related to the JW's, what did you expect?
There's a lot of help that can be given to folks who are looking to leave the JW cult, who have recently left, or who may yet get themselves entangled in that kind of ideology...
As an exJW I'm pretty well placed to help with that. It's a humble calling but a worthy one. The parallels and comparisons between the graph and the JW apocalyptic mindset were too obvious to miss.

- Where do you get the dates 2020 and 3000 from?
- Regards to Norval - how is he doing?

I might also add, how have you been doing?

Raymond Franz

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