Does "Abiding in Christ" = Joining his organization?

by M.J. 8 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    In John 15 we see that, above all else, Jesus? message was to abide in him. He very clearly says, ?Abide in me? and if you do this you will ?bear fruit?.

    So the question is, how do you get to abide in him? The passage says you can?t do anything worthwhile apart from Him in the first place; you must first come to him. So how do you get to him? Is it by joining ?His organization?? I am employed in an organization which was founded and run by a certain dynamic individual, (we'll call him "Bob") who inherited the company from his father. I?m expected to dedicate a great part of my life to the organization, abiding by its core principles and direction from "Bob". In this organization, my work, dedication, and how closely I keep the highly regarded company values is evaluated by all my peers, so I?m very motivated to do what is ?right?. But I wonder, no matter how dedicated and ?good? I become as an employee, would this in itself allow me to really say that I abide in Bob? Does it bring me to know Bob or Bob to know me?

    Philippians 3:8 says: W hat is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ.

    Does a certain type of acquired knowledge in itself bring us to abide in Him? When Jesus spoke to the Pharisees, he said, You search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of Me; yet you are unwilling to come to me, that you may have life ( John 5:39,40 ).

    In many places, the Bible speaks of things like, ?Christ abiding in you? (John 15), being ?in Christ? (very often), Christ being ?in you? (Rom. 8, 2 Cor 13:5), being joined to Christ (Rom 7:4), Christ dwelling in your heart (Eph 3:16), a person having the Son (1 John 5:12), living together with Christ (1 Thess 5:9,10), etc. Paul even says that Christ lives in him (Gal 2:19). Now we might ask, was this a figure of speech to Paul used to symbolize how carefully he lived by Jesus? lectures on scripture? Perhaps it was the teachings of Christ that actually lived in him? It seems clear that Paul didn?t speak in an impersonal way about Jesus, but that Jesus is very real and important to him in a personal sense and that it should be the same for us: 2 Cor 5:15 - And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    You might wish to add 1 John 2:20,27, about the "anointing" (Greek khrisma, cf. khristos, "Christ"):

    But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and all of you have knowledge. As for you, the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and so you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, abide in him.
  • Happy Guy :)
    Happy Guy :)

    So the question is, how do you get to abide in him? The passage says you can?t do anything worthwhile apart from Him in the first place; you must first come to him. So how do you get to him? Is it by joining ?His organization?? I am employed in an organization which was founded and run by a certain dynamic individual, (we'll call him "Bob") who inherited the company from his father. I?m expected to dedicate a great part of my life to the organization, abiding by its core principles and direction from "Bob". In this organization, my work, dedication, and how closely I keep the highly regarded company values is evaluated by all my peers, so I?m very motivated to do what is ?right?. But I wonder, no matter how dedicated and ?good? I become as an employee, would this in itself allow me to really say that I abide in Bob? Does it bring me to know Bob or Bob to know me?

    Your analogy is flawed because answering it either way presupposes that Jesus has an organization. In Bob's case it is clear as it is his company and he is there everyday. I do not see any signs of Jesus' organization in the world.

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    Many of these scriptures make sense when viewed mystically: "Christ" then referring to the immediate realization of God, the Divine, within you as your true identity.

    On the other hand, if one interprets scripture fundamentally -- where the Divine is reduced to a limited thing, person, or object floating about and restricted to time and space -- then many of the scriptures referring to the Christ in such an intimate way can be quite confusing.


    j

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    Happy Guy:

    I do not see any signs of Jesus' organization in the world.

    That's exactly the point I'm trying to make :)

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    I would say that my biblically theological position would be:
    Christ stays in a person by means of the Holy Spirit. When we grieve the Holy Spirit we don't bear fruit. The connection is still there, but we become spiritual dwarves.

    Of the JW "anointed" who have stayed in and that I've communicated with, they all have a "deadened" feel to them. The WTS sucks the life right out of people...

  • kes152
    kes152

    This is how ones may abide in the Christ... the TRUE vine... the ROOT of Jesse.. the BRIGHT morning star.

    The Spirit says.. "Come to me.. all you who are toiling and loaded down... and I will REFRESH you.."

    "If anyone is thirsty.. let him come to me.. and he that puts faith in me.. let him DRINK, even as the scripture says.. 'Out from his inmost parts streams of living waters will flow."

    If you 'believe' and you wish to come to know him who is from the beginning... then search your hearts and come to him IN TRUTH.. and in the deepest of honesty.. and confess before him all your errors and ask of him to receive the water of life that he gives to "anyone asking, anyone seeking, anyone wishing, anyone knocking."

    For your own benefit and your own best interests... you must be truly honest with yourself and speak "what is true" whether it is GOOD or BAD. If you lack the faith to hear him.. search your hearts for the REASONS you lack such faith and confess THESE reasons to him and openly.. and honestly.. ask that he 'open your ear' so that you may hear the voice of the Holy One calling out to you.

    He forces no one to hear him and no one to understand him... so if you find in your heart that although you "want" to hear him... your heart does NOT wish to hear from him... that you tell him.. and confess to him.. and TELL him WHY your heart wishes NOT to hear from him.

    Is your heart 'hiding' something that it wishes not to be "discovered?" Are you 'set' in your ways and in certain things you believe... that were you to actually hear that what you believe is NOT true.. or even erroneous.. that you "could not handle it?" Can you be honest enough to at least... admit it to YOURSELF.. that there are some things you are not ready for? Can you at least admit it to yourself that there are things your heart firmly holds onto.. that you cannot at this time 'let go of?' Are you willing to AT LEAST.. be patient with yourself until you "can" let go.. and you CAN hear with an open heart... that which you could not hear at present?

    These things will help you to 'see' what IS in your heart and WHY your heart will not allow you to hear the things you may wish to hear. When you see this.. as horrible as it may look.. when you CONFESS IT.. and EMBRACE IT.. your heart will begin to LET IT GO.. if you really wish to. But.... it is UP TO YOU.

    When your heart does let go.. and you then are freely 'hearing' from the Holy One.. as long as you keep and remain in union with his sayings that he gives to you... in YOUR HEART... then you will remain in union WITH YOU.. and you will remain in union.. WITH HIM. And as he speaks to you things hurtful to your flesh... but beneficial to your SPIRIT.. you will begin to bear MORE fruit.. of love... joy... peace.. long-suffering... goodness... kindness... FAITH... self-control... and your FRUIT will remain... and you will bring praise to our Father in the heavens.. for he LOVES the righteous AND the unrighteous.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Kes,

    Same old you have a bad heart if you don't beleive malarky. Did you ever for once think that people don't beleive not because they have evil hearts but simply because it's all bull shit.

  • kes152
    kes152

    To Frankie,

    There are many people who no longer 'believe' or believed in the wrong "Christ" who have been told that "unless you believe the way we do, you have a wicked heart." This is not something my Lord has taught me since the time I have served the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

    The truth is that the heart in and of itself, the heart that mankind has now, is in and of itself treacherous and desperate. It lives to serve its desires and it wishes to be enslaved by stimulation of the flesh. People will still have a treacherous heart even when they DO believe and have put faith in the Christ. They are 'declared righteous' by SPIRIT.. although still possessing the filth of the flesh.

    Whether one "believes" or not does not change the truth that they as well as the rest of mankind have treacherous hearts. It is indeed treacherous and desperate and there is no man who has come to know his heart fully, nor that of his fellowman. Therefore, although some may believe, we all have badness in our hearts despite what men have told us.

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