I think it was more about confession of sin before the congregation so that people could show some humility . It also has something to do with being approved for public preaching as well so that people who do have severe sinful tendencies are not given the responsibilities of spiritual things but can still worship . I know the catholics believe somehow a preist can calculate the exact number of hail marys or our fathers so as to receive forgiveness ( that's a complete joke as far as I'm concerned ) I think it is more about praying together and working problems out together being far better than pretending you have reached some sort of spiritual enlightenment that puts you above the rest .
Confession of sin and the watchtower
by little witch 21 Replies latest jw friends
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XQsThaiPoes
Some of you are taking it out of context. JWs don't need to confess sins to anyone. The WTS is adiamant about that. If you commit a sin and you confess to God and thusly are promoted a rank in jwdom your sin is absolved by God (because for some reason the holyspirit asigns these ranks and would not pick a guilty person).
The weird thing is the fact that for some reason you are supposse to want to get some spirit juice flowing off the elderbody to help you with your problems (except problems regarding blood fractions or abuse which the elders are not allowed to talk about anymore). If you dont go running up to the elders for help with your inner demons and get "caught" (ie God didn't help you) you're cooked.
It is a cartoonishly niave system that would work miracles if God or the holyghost or what ever was realy as proactive as the watchtower claims. In real life its a mess.
THe problem is you are realy only allowed to sin (that the elders know about) about once every 5 years or so. You are allowed unlimited private sins. So people rarely go for help thinking it is better to keep it quite. This is nonsense. People are far more imperfect than the WTS wants to admitt. And this gloden system of "non confession" usually turns into an inqusition.
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little witch
((((Frannie,KLS,Gumby)))) I miss you all too!
Thankyou all for your comments, and ty Golf for the links. I suppose what is most bothersome to me is that the jw's are taught in strong terms to report the sins of OTHERS. There seems to be very little taught on confession between a sinner and God. The admonition to not judge others lest you be judged has been tossed aside along with the idea that all Gods children are equal. Now that would really screw up the business plan wouldn't it? If the rank and file were to realize that our heavenly father is no respecter of persons? (the gb is no more enlightened than the members themselves)!
I disagree that the watchtower discourages confession of sin to human authorities. On the contrary, members are encouraged strongly to report the sins of fellow brothers and sisters. Even members of their own families. And why? Not to be comforted and healed, but to "keep the congregation (read business) clean".
The god of the watchtower is not quick to forgive sin, but requires careful watching, public reproof,backroom counseling,disfellowshipping, and shunning!
Where is the comfort in that theology? Where is forgiveness? I just cannot imagine to torment of having to work and prove myself to such a scary, wishy washy god. I feel very bad for people in that situation.
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Golf
Good day LW. My mom was reluctant to have dinner with us last night because of my status, disfellowshipped. Their keeping an eye on her. This wasn't the case a few years ago when she was sick and I took it upon myself to take care of her, did anyone from the congregation offer to take her in? Yeah, no one, not even my elder brother. So, where was this Christian hospitality and caring that they preach about? What ever happen to '...taking care of widows?' The former Catholic priest,Charles Chiniguy, was a very compassionate person and those who criticize his book are missing the point. He believed in Christ and not in man made rules and dogma. He exposed the Church doctrines, especially about confessional and the Jesuits as being militaristic. Chapter LV provides plenty of interesting information. It's understandable that he would be attacked as he was a free thinker. He reminded me of a number of things that I have experienced when being a witness. One is, don't think, they will think for you! I guess you can relate to that. I've been acquainted with the witnesses since the late forties, so I'm not a newbie. Thanks for bringing up the subject, take care. Guest77
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Special K
Hi Little witch.. we were wondering where you were.
Welcome back
you said:
Ratting out anothers sin is highly frowned upon, as that is judging another, and unseating Christs authority. It is also gossip
I found that true of the United Church members. They seem to be a very excepting bunch and don't seem to learn the art of judging people so much. Acceptance seems to be what they promote.
Oh, and I'm not United but alot of people I know seem to be.
Special K .
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Country_Woman
I read in the newspaper a few weeks ago that our Dutch Reformed Church is going to install a new dogma: the Confession.
They don't want you to go confess your sins not on a daily, weekly or even monthly basis, but "once in a while" to give it more "worth". It has to be something exclusive.
I don't know if confession automatically means forgiveness.
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Balsam
After leaving the JW and being disfellowshipped. I and my sweety attended a few churches here and there just out curiousity mostly. And we got bored on Sundays and religion interested us in its affects on people lives. So as a research kinda thing we went and observed different Christian Churches.
Well What was mentioned in the first message was true. I saw people come forward in churches confess their sins and the whole church would pray for them to be healed. It was quite powerful and the person left feeling good, in connection with God's love and a loving family all around to embrace them.
Then I thought wow, how much more affective that is than how JW handle sinners. It is cruel, and totally is non healing in any way.
Christian Churches I attended were very forgiving and merciful with those who chose to confess their sins. It wasn't just the Ministers who dealt with it but everyone. I found it quite touching.
Aside from that though I really have no interested in any religion, its foundation is so crumbly and unsound that putting faith in it is not something I want to do. One day the whole foundation of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, will probably crash and burn. Till it does I plan to just stay out of the way. Oh the most interesting one was the Unitarian Universalist, where every kind of spirituality is welcome, even atheism, paganism, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhist, Muslems, all religions have place there. Interesting group of folks. Still attend their religious discussion group but don't bother with Sunday services.
Balsam
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heathen
I agree with XQ this thing seems like it turns into some sort of inquisition instead of a healing process . They follow each other around just to rat each other out and they are not above doing things in very sneaky underhanded ways . They are no different than any other cult by using the fear factor instead of simply quoting the scriptures that encourage people to confess their own sins so that people can help and pray for them in a christian way. James 5:16 . The way I see it we are not to live in fear of judgement from our fellow man but be in fear of God . The christian way is to be at peace with one another and show mercy and compassion instead of throwing salt on wounds .
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Kenneson
Golf,
You ask if I have read any of Chiniquys books. I must admit that I have only just completed chapter four of "Fifty Years in the Church of Rome." But I intend to read it all.
I'm sure that you consider lies the link I provided above, yet you would have me believe that Chiniquy is truthful. However, at the very outset of the book this statement caught my attention: "Before leaving the Seminary of Quebec my father had received from his Superiors, as a token of esteem, a beautiful French and Latin Bible." This was the Bible they had and used at home. One day, along comes the parish priest who is determined to get rid of it. He tells them that the Council of Trent forbids them having a French Bible, but that it must be only Latin. Chiniquy's father says they've been using this French Bible all along and don't intend to stop using it. He tells the priest to leave and Chiniquy's beloved Bible is saved.
Now, while the Council of Trent declared that the Latin Vulgate was to be the standard version, it said nothing about translations in the vernacular. As a matter of fact, if one notes, the Bible used in his home was written in Latin as well as French, so what would be the problem? Why would priests in a Seminary give his father a forbidden book in the first place? Something sounds fishy to me. And it is. Before Chiniquy formed a schismatic church, he once had a debate with a Protestant that was published in the Canadian press. What he said then is far different from what he said in his book. The debate appears below; please note what he had to say about French Bibles. Doesn't sound like they were forbidden to me.
http://www.geocities.com/chiniquy/Two_Chiniquys.html
This alone causes me to raise my guards as to how truthful the rest of his book is.
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Brummie
Liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttlllllllllllllllllle witch! ((((((missed ya)))))
x x x
Good thread too.
Brummie