When You Try To Reason With Someone About The "Truth", What's Your Focus? (page 2)

minimus

Good point, Mark. But I know that everyone shares a different perspective.

Yes, I think we might look at it as what works well for you, what kind of issues are you successful in discussing with the witnesses? Aside from the intellectual content though, I want to also point out that empathy may help you pick up on where the other person is at, even if it's in a general sense.

minimus

I've heard that when most bash JWism, they get down on any religion or even the belief in God. Most JWs that are disturbed for 1 reason or another, are not prepared to be offered no alternative. They still may feel a need for spirituality.

jgnat

I found the most effective topics are those that have touched me personally. I talk about the difficulties being married to a sincere Witness, who, in his zeal to be "acceptable", is steadily cutting us off from family and friends. "What is really wrong with family gatherings where food and good memories and love is shared?" I ask.

I get the stammered talk of "conscience matter". Which is fine with me. I follow my hubby around the house saying, "Conscience matter, conscience matter, see? You can DO SO come to the wedding reception!"

Markfromcali

I've heard that when most bash JWism, they get down on any religion or even the belief in God. Most JWs that are disturbed for 1 reason or another, are not prepared to be offered no alternative. They still may feel a need for spirituality.

Good point Min. What it comes down to is the difference between being focused on the "Truth" and being focused on the person and their well being, and what aspect of being a JW is involved. When you deal with something that affects their life then that is something real and tangible to them. If you get into it with someone intellectually oriented that might work - but only on an intellectual level. Even if they agree with you, where does it leave them? That's of course the nice thing about someone sharing from their own personal experience, because there is that common ground and they don't feel so alone and empty handed. If you approach it from a perspective of strictly intellectual debate you are more likely to conjure up the apostate demon in their mind, or just general defensiveness.

johnny cip

i try to set up jw's . with questions like jehovah hates a liar, false ,decietfull. witness etc. they will agree. then i ask them about some old wt book ie the finished mystery 1917. etc i read about in a recent wt. then i ask them have you read that book? funny like 80- 90% of jw's tell me they have and what a great book it was. then i give them al little book test.... so how do you feel about the time of the end starting in 1799 and jesus return to kingdom power in 1874 and the birds eating the flesh of all non jw's in 1920 etc> "WHAT THE WT NEVER TAUGHT THAT"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! well you just told me your read these books. all of this was explained as bible truth page after page in these books as coming from jehovah's channel.." THE FDS NEVER SAID THAT IN PRINTED" that's because in all honesty you never read any of these books have you? or you would know exactly what i'm talking about> so now back to jehovah hates a liar and a false witness. you just stood here and lied to my face , but even worse you lied in the name of jehovah. the jw knows they have been busted as a liar!!!!!!!!!! this conversation can be used on almost any wt topic. and takes less than 5 minutes. and guess who walks away pissed off? john

minimus

John, I probably wouldn't use that approach.

johnny cip

MINI; i understand it's not for you. all the jw's know you. in the big city only an hand full of jw's know me. don't get me wrong i use different angles. but i smooth them over before i drop any bombs. (plant a seed) trhe point is to get a jw to commit to certain bible principles, with out using the bible. prove all thing true, never use god's name in vain, jehovah hates a false witness. etc. jw's eat this stuff up. i ask simple questions like can you back up everything in this wt mag your handing out? they will say yes> good now they just dug thier graves. i smile and pull out a newer wt out of my pocket and ask them to back up some obscure quote in last months wt> they can't ie dr robert l. thomas teaching on the 144,000 in the sept 1 2004 wt pg 30. you mean to say you haven't proved that dr. thomas agrees with the wt on the 144K . you just told me you can back up everything in this mag. then i let them know i did some research on dr thomas and his teachings on the 144k . and not only does he disagree with the wt but he calls them out by name as being wrong on the 144k. it's points like this that work on a jw. i did the research. the jw didn't but says they can back the whole mag . who is the liar. i never claimed . this mag was truth. i didn't put my foot in my mouth. then i offer the jw's to go to the local public library with me , and look this stuff up and see if the wt is telling the truth. they panic . . then i offer them my home phone number , and tell them i found many more , highly questionable things in many of these mag's they hand out as truth. they are welcome to call if they waqnt to go over some of them.. i have put the ball in thier court. 1 out of a 100 have called. it don't really matter if they don't call. if 1 or 2 get the guist of what i'm saying. i've don't my job. and i talk with anywhere from 2-40 jw's a week. john

Brummie

In no particular order.....

The historical 100% failure of prophecy, I always tend to zoom in on 1874. I also draw identifying marks between the WT and the catholic church.

The 1969 KIT is also a fav of mine, I usually start with "here's one I got earlier from a second hand store" and then go on to show them the deliberate mistranslations in it.

Confucious

To me - my reasoning point is this...

What is more important? Loyalty to the Organization or Loyalty to God.

That does help get them thinking.

Well, maybe it doesn't change them, but it gets them thinking that wow... they just might not be one in the same.

The most damming evidenced, to me. Is the Standfasters.

When You Try To Reason With Someone About The "Truth", What's Your Focus?

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