Comments You Will Not Hear at the 12-5-04 WT Study--Abbreviated

by blondie 18 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • blondie
    blondie

    Hey Gary,

    Maybe the old term "people of good will" as a description for the former "other sheep" group will be returning soon.

    Actually, the WTS had "new light" that the phrase "people of good will" was not scripturally correct. I remember when my aunts spent a evening ripping that change apart. But they are still "good" JWs.

    *** w95 5/15 p. 25 Flashes of Light?Great and Small (Part 2) ***
    Then there was the matter of getting a clearer understanding of Luke 2:14. According to the King James Version, it reads: "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men." It was seen that this did not express the correct thought, for God?s goodwill is not expressed toward the wicked. The Witnesses therefore viewed this as a matter of peace to men who were of goodwill toward God. So they kept referring to those interested in the Bible as persons of goodwill. But then it was understood that what was involved was goodwill, not on the part of men, but on the part of God. Thus, the New World Translation footnote on Luke 2:14 speaks of "men whom he [God] approves." All Christians who are living up to their vow of dedication have God?s goodwill.

    This was understood but not put into print until 1995.

    You?d be surprised how many JWs sit in the audience and know they are being referred to as second-class.

    Hello Czar,

    Ain?t this the reality:

    Completely ignoring the fact that the "leaven" that Jesus warned his followers to avoid was the "leaven of the Pharisees" or regulations, laws, and making the Word invalid with their traditions.

    Every week the WTS has some new rule to cover something that has come up that they can?t control. Jesus said he taught a new law, the law of love. When people do things out of love, they don?t need thousands of rules.

    Hi Kwin,

    always wondered how the ?anointed? instantly became perfect when the died and resurrected and it took 1,000 years to make the same personality adjustments in the rest on earth.

    Interesting point. You would think that the anointed would have an adjustment period as well, y'know stripping off the old personallity and such. Maybe they're just quicker at it since they are after all anointed.

    Actually, I tried this out on every elder I ever met. No one even had a good answer, even the 2 GB members I asked. It?s like they expect us to believe that God suddenly tweaks them, gives them a spirit body, and immortality while the rest of humans need 1,000 years.

    Welcome wizedup.

    Telling you what to think, how to act, what to wear, how to give YOUR own answers using their words, what to believe, and even how to FEEL. I know there's much more in that list. It's appalling and just tooo sad for those inside who still believe in them.

    Don?t I know, 50 years to stupidity for me before I left. But I did leave and so will some of those. Some already feel dissonance, perhaps thinking of it as "brainwashing." It?s like straddling a picket fence that gets higher and higher; pretty soon you have to pick one side or the other because of the pain.

    Thanks Willy, I think,

    It scares me to think that I understand the convoluted thinking of the WTS, but then I understand or see through that kind of thinking wherever I go.

    But who really forgives sins in the WT organization? Can you go just to God for forgiveness?
    The Society lambastes Catholics for requiring members to go to a priest to seek forgiveness, while making the same requirement for JWs.

    And this point:

    Q: Who decides whether a person is really repentant in the WT organization? God?
    A: The elders? responsibility in determining true repentance is a weighty one --'81 WTThe lesson is clear: Jehovah God has been replaced by the organization and its appointees.

    As to confessing to the elders, the WTS has this version of convoluted thinking:

    They like to point to David and the fact that he confessed to Nathan. But then God revealed David?s sin to Nathan the prophet. Such supernatural revelations are not given to elders today despite some elders opinion.

    Hi Will,

    We visit Canada a lot and love adding an "eh" to our sentences.

    The company that can get the consumer to persuade themselves is the ultimate manipulator - ready to rake in the dough OR more directly YOUR LOYALTY, YOUR VOTE.

    Good point, many JWs believe things but cannot explain them from the Bible. Yet they persuade themselves it must be there or they wouldn?t believe it?.the WTS can?t be lying can they? The WTS is very selective in the outside material they bring in, slanting it to their pre-set conclusion.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/etc/script.html

    Good point, heathen,

    That whole unbaptized publisher crap is all based on opinion and has nothing to do with the bible in fact the bible says you are not approved to preach the message until baptized

    I have heard the WTS argue that Cornelius received the holy spirit and spoke in tongues before he was baptized, but then that works against their theory that only baptized, dedicated JWs will survive the big A.

    Hi bebu,

    But... if only the annointed have Jesus as a mediator, then how is it that the "sheep" can also get forgiveness on the basis of that sacrifice

    That is the twisted theology of the WTS. The WTS puts a legalistic slantt on it and says it only applies directly to the anointed but indirectly to the non-anointed as long as they stay in close association with the anointed?.get the picture?get the manipulation?

    Hey Flash,

    1. By the way...Did we mention your all second class???

    That about sums it up, doesn?t it?

    Thanks all for your wonderful comments; I always learn even more reading them.

    Blondie

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    But then it was understood that what was involved was goodwill, not on the part of men, but on the part of God.

    Hahaha, First I heard of that. Spin, spin . . . .

    The current Witnesses are almost a class without a designation. All their former titles have been deleted. They DESERVE to be confused:-)

  • codeblue
    codeblue

    Blondie: excellent review as usual

    I have gleaned a very important point that will help me when I write a letter to a relative that scolded me because I said the elders didn't give me the visits they promised me when I was going thru my divorce. 2 relatives told me I was speaking against the elders, maybe sharing this point in a letter will help them understand how they need to be encouraging to me the widow, who was raising an orphan son during a very depressing time in my life.

    We can offer practical help to older fellow Christians, widows, and orphans and "speak consolingly to the depressed souls.

    CodeBlue

  • Will Power
    Will Power

    Thanks Blondie - I didn't know you could get the whole show like that!

    Here is the clincher:

    DOUGLAS RUSHKOFF: It was near the end of my tour through the landscape of persuasion that I came to realize how the problem of clutter finally gets solved. Marketers find a way so deep inside each one of us that it no longer feels like persuasion at all. Maybe we are in control. Once the market becomes the lens through which we choose to see the world, then there's no "us" and "them" anymore. We're all persuaders.

    STUART EWEN: The secret of it all, the secret of all persuasion, is to induce the person to persuade himself.

    The fear of death is usually so deep inside - whether fear because of guilt, or depression, suicidal, loss of a loved one etc.....

    Do we all just try to trade one crutch for another? Crutches are supposed to be temporary tho, The WT wants to keep you forever.

    Bebu:

    But... if only the annointed have Jesus as a mediator, then how is it that the "sheep" can also get forgiveness on the basis of that sacrifice?

    Driving home tonight we passed a Kindom Hall. On the front of the building - (extremely large, and where most Christian churches would have put a big cross or other identifier of a house that recognizes Jesus who publically died......) - on the front was a huge outline of the turrets & TOWER - which you can't help but identify as the symbol of worship for the JWs.

    I agree, I don't think they follow their own theology - but that could be part of their strategy - keep them guessing and "glued" to their WTs......oh my, how /why will it end! LOL

    How many had similar KH ICONS?

    WILL

  • heathen
    heathen

    I just remember what the apostle peter said about baptism being an appeal to God for a clean conscience , so that God can excuse your sins of the past making you acceptable in spiritual persuits . Also acts of apostles had people being baptised by the apostles on the very day they heard the message and not having to go through a lengthy indoctrination period . To me all you have to do is accept christ as your savior and worship in spirit and truth . The WTBTS acts like they are some sort of judge of character and it's their responsibility to see to it that the organization is not put in a bad light on account of people they select . I might add they do a piss poor job anyway so why don't they just quit pretending ?

  • Bonnie_Clyde
    Bonnie_Clyde

    "Awareness of our spiritual need moves us to read the Bible daily (JWs who do not should not feel guilty), to absorb spiritual food dispensed "at the proper time" by "the faithful and discreet slave" and to..."

    This sentence could be taken that the Bible is written by the "faiathful and discreet slave."

  • wheres caleb?
    wheres caleb?

    Excellent post heathen.

    The elders do not have to confess their own sins. They are their own judges. Since they are appointed by holy spirit, they are qualified to exact the proper discipline in their own regard. How convenient.

    What is worse? Liars who tell lies or those that believe the lies and support it?

  • heathen
    heathen

    I would have to say the liars that tell lies because the people who believe and support the lie often are kept from the facts through some sort of intimidation .It's clear that's how the jehovah witnesses are strung along they can't even tell when or who the evil slave is when they are evidently distorting the truth in order to manipulate and control . I am still learning more and more how they opperate and so far I am appalled at what I've found out . The WTBTS has shown that they do not have a conscience and refuse to show humility by repentance . It's apparently easier to take on superior airs and continue a course of wayward ideology then to wake up and realize they are naked in respect to spiritual truths . Alot of times I've noticed they insist the reader to believe that God lies by letting people in charge of the printing facility print falsehoods , such as the new light and old light crap . They exsplain away their own inadaquacy with slight of hand tricks rather than admit their mistakes and ask to be forgiven by people that are suffering in connection with tainted doctrine.

  • FairMind
    FairMind

    “But... if only the anointed have Jesus as a mediator, then how is it that the "sheep" can also get forgiveness on the basis of that sacrifice?

    This looks, to me, like they don't even follow their own theology. Or am I overlooking something?"

    Bebu, the way this is explained is that Jesus died for all mankind not just those who will be in heaven with him. The mediation was not for mankind’s sins but for a new covenant with those who will be part of the heavenly kingdom of Kings and Priests with Jesus Christ. I'm not arguing one way or another but this is how this is reconciled.

    FM

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