The system of privileges in WTS - any thoughts on how it works?

by Pole 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • formerout
    formerout

    JTP,

    In a very few days you have already made quite a few great comments already and this one is no exception either. I thought your points about jobs that they typically fill was a very valid observation:

    But my theory is that people need something fulfilling in their life, career, religion, relationship, etc... and some people have such empty lives that the "title" and "power" in the religion does it for them.

    I have always felt..... (and I hope I'm not unwittingly insulting anyone here either.. but....) .. that it's kind of like a security guard mentality. The power that they have is peanuts compared to cops... to the rest of the world at least... but they delude themselves with thinking that they have the same power.

    Witnesses are a parallel..... they delude themselves with these positions of power... whether it be elders, ministerial servants, mics, talks, even hours in field service.... but it is never a true representation of having any REAL power. Real power comes from personal freedom.... to think and act FREELY, yet in a positive way. That's why when we get out we see the difference so well. The truth was out here, yet hidden from us when we were inside.

    Brad

  • Pole
    Pole

    Good posts everyone.

    gerbils,

    I think that the push for men in the congregation to reach MS/elder status is very powerful. It seems to me that if you are just an 'ordinary' man in the congregation it is assumed that there is something seriously spiritually wrong with you!

    Exactly. Since everybody is expected to become an officer of one rank or another, individual thinking gets discouraged. When in doubt, just follow the regulations and directives as they are laid in the book. Even the nicest people have committed terrible crimes when simply fulfilling their orders.

    ko38,

    we filled their days with 12 or 13 hours of activity so they couldnt look for another job) sound familiar?

    I guess the GB are the epitome of this pattern. Just read the descriptions of their meetings as presented in the CoC book. They had so many duties that they couldn't find time for studying the bible when they made "bible-based" decisions. Why should we expect the ordinary sheep to be any different?

    M.J.

    Manipulating rewards, punishments and experiences in order to elicit the behavior and attitudes that leadership wants.

    Thanks for this qoute.

    JustTickledPink,

    Great points. Yes there is a privilege for everyone. Actually it corresponds to my/metatron's totalitarian system analogy where real skills don't matter as much as loyalty.

    AK - Jeff,

    I think is all part of the 'labeling game' - in other words judging by categorizing everyone into one cubby-hole or another.

    Yes, just like anything else in a totalitarian system. The point is individuals don't count. It's their roles contributing to the totality of the system. People can be replaced and substituted for.

    metatron,

    First, thank you for recognizing the similarities between the Watchtower and the former Soviet Union. I 've been saying this for years.

    Yes, I think I read one of your threads in which you drew this comparison. IMO, it WTS were a state they'd be something like Iran crossed with the Soviet Union with good assets-managment skills which they learned in the capitalist West :)).

    kwintesal, czar,

    Maximum effort, minimum reward.
    People with no option but to keep working for the BOrg and hope the New System jackpot pays out someday.

    Come on guys, wouldn't you like to promoted to the positions of mighty "princes" in God's Kingdom? Think of all the privileges and getting direct revelations from Christ's brothers - who will be then ruling the earth from heaven....

    formerout,

    Real power comes from personal freedom.... to think and act FREELY, yet in a positive way. That's why when we get out we see the difference so well. The truth was out here, yet hidden from us when we were

    Yes, the best way to harness personal freedom is by giving them "a privilege"...

    Pole

  • Pole
    Pole

    sorry about the formatting. I'm not sure how I got it all in two columns...

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief

    The two columns thing was impressive!

    Come on guys, wouldn't you like to promoted to the positions of mighty "princes" in God's Kingdom? Think of all the privileges and getting direct revelations from Christ's brothers - who will be then ruling the earth from heaven....

    Hell, I can smoke up and get a revelation NOW. And I rule my cats with an iron fist!

    LOL!

    CZAR

  • Pole
    Pole
    And I rule my cats with an iron fist!

    LOL at Czar, the Mighty Prince of Cats.

    I hope from time to time they get some privileges in your kingdom ...

  • blondie
    blondie

    Here's a nightmare story of what I would imagine life would be in the "new world" under the direction of the "princes"

    The Diary of an

    Armageddon Survivor

    The following is not fantasy, this is what we were taught to expect when we were Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Michael Pendley [email protected]>

    DAY 1

    Well, the Big A is over and I survived. I made my way down to the Kingdom Hall this morning. By the end of the day most of the congregation had gathered at the Hall. Some brothers and sisters are still missing, Ed Thorn, our presiding overseer, told us that those who were missing should have spent more time in field service.


    DAY 2

    Brother Thorn called a special meeting This morning. He announced that he and the other elders would now be assuming full authority over our new community until contact was reestablished with headquarters. All decisions regarding community regulations, living arrangements, work assignments, and other matters would be at the sole discretion of the elders.

    Sam Greene objected to this dictatorial policy until Thorn pulled out a letter from the Society dated several months ago which stated that, after Armageddon, the local body of elders would be responsible for all decisions until otherwise directed by the Society. Sam voiced no further objections. The rest of us also accepted the new arrangement.

    The first new rule was not long in coming - all brothers and sisters were required to report to the Kingdom Hall at 8:00 every morning to receive work assignments and other instructions.


    DAY 3

    Brother Thorn has assigned me lo the burial detail. It seems that most of us single brothers have been assigned this unpleasant duty. The dead bodies are already starting to get to me. It sickens me to watch the birds and other animals scavenge the corpses. I actually saw a raven pluck out an eyeball today. Disgusting! Rob Johnson got a bulldozer running and has begun to dig a large common grave. My job is to go around collecting bodies and load them into the back of a pickup truck.


    DAY 4

    We had our first judicial hearing today. Larry and Sue Winters had moved into the McRae mansion in what was once the exclusive Cypress Oaks subdivision. The problem was that Sister Thorn had already had her eye on the place and, as wife of the presiding overseer, she figured that she should have first choice. Brother Thorn told Brother and Sister Winter that they had no right to claim anything without approval of the elders. They were ordered to get out of the house by nightfall. The Winters were very disappointed but they agreed to move out.


    DAY 5

    At the morning meeting, the Thorns announced that they would be moving into the McRae place. The Winters were livid, but they didn't say anything. It was also announced that the surrounding estate homes had been assigned to the other elders. Position has privilege, even in the New World.

    Some of the brothers have started calling the area "Elder Hill". It was also announced that anyone wanting to appropriate a home must first file a request with the elders. I have decided to stay in my own house. It doesn't seem right to move into someone else's home, even if they were worldly. It makes me sad when I go into someone's house and see the family pictures and personal belongings. Most of the others don't feel this way, it doesn't bother them to loot the dead.


    DAY 8

    The elders announced a new meeting schedule at the morning meeting. On Sunday, we will still have the public talk followed by a study of old Watchtower articles until we get new magazines. On Tuesday night, we will have a congregational book study. The Service Meeting has been canceled (no need for it anymore) along with the Ministry School. They have been replaced by an instructional session to be held on Friday night. This new meeting will instruct us on how to conduct ourselves in the New World Society. The best thing, of course is no more field service!


    DAY 10

    This burial work is taking a heavy toll on me. I can't help but feel saddened at the waste of so much human life. Why couldn't Jehovah have found a way to save more people? The children are the worst, I can't stand to see their little bodies anymore. I don't think I'll report for work tomorrow.


    DAY 11

    I didn't go to work today. Ed Thorn came by later in the morning and asked me why I wasn't at work. I told him I didn't feel well. He told me to gel to work, that everyone feels well all the time in the New World. He also told me that depression, and mental anxiety were things of the past.

    Of course, he doesn't have to bury the bodies.


    DAY 14

    It's been two weeks now. I really miss things like electricity and running water. I wonder if we'll ever get those things working again. Rob Johnson and I borrowed a generator from the Hall last night and hooked it up to my television and VCR. We had a great time watching some "Star Trek" videos and a tape of last year's Super bowl. I really miss television.


    DAY 15

    At the morning meeting, Brother Thorn publicly reprimanded Rob and I for watching television. The elders have decided that, henceforth. watching videos is prohibited since we do not want our new paradise to be contaminated by the old world. Thorn speculated that one day we might have "theocratic television" from the Society. The Watchtower Channel? Spare me


    DAY 20

    Still no word from the Society. We have spoken to representatives From surrounding congregations but the elders are not allowing anyone to travel. Carol Woods wanted to visit her sister in the next county to see if she made it through okay, but Brother Thorn told her to slay put and be patient. After all, she would have plenty of time to see her sister later. I think that was a cruel thing to say.


    DAY 30

    We finally finished most other the burial work. I am so relieved. The scavenger birds are still hanging around. I have grown to hate the sight of of the fat, disgusting creatures. One of the damn things attracted me today. I guess they have acquired a taste for human flesh.


    DAY 45

    Many other the brothers and sisters are getting sick of being bossed around by the elders. They run things like an old South plantation, we are the slaves. they are the overseers. I have been reassigned to work on the communal farm. It is hard work, but it beats the burial detail. Sam Greene is organizing a committee to speak to the elders about some of the complaints that we all have.


    DAY 47

    The elders found out about Sam Green's attempted "rebellion". At the morning meeting, he was publicly reprimanded and told to pray for a humble spirit. No one is to speak to him until he has shown proper repentance. I can't believe that we are disfellowshipping people in the New World


    DAY 51

    Today a messenger finally arrived from the Society. Wade Peters, a young Bethelite, arrived on horseback. He told us that the Society has moved all headquarters staff to Patterson after the destruction of New York City. We also received the first post-Armageddon Watchtower (now issued quarterly).

    Many of us had hoped that it would contain information allowing us more personal freedom but we were disappointed to read that we were to keep following the instructions of the local elders until further notice. He also gave the elders a copy of a new procedure manual (titled ORGANIZATION FOR THE NEW WORLD"), but none of us were allowed to see it.


    DAY 69

    My best friend got married today in a shotgun wedding! Rob and Sally Kennedy were discovered together while engaged in a heavy kissing session. Sally's blouse was unbuttoned and Rob had his hand on her exposed breast. After a judicial meeting, Brother Thorn announced that they were now married, without a ceremony or anything! Rob objected strenuously, explaining that he and Sally had not had sex. Brother Thorn, however, declared that the decision was in keeping with the new elder procedure manual. Sally seems happy enough but Rob is in a state of shock. I remember he once told me that he liked Sally's body, but thought that she was as dumb as a box of rocks. Now he is married to her forever. I'll have to remember to keep my hands in my pockets when I date any sisters.


    DAY 80

    The newlyweds are not getting along. There has been a lot of gossip about their horrible spats. Rob confided to me today that he went to the elders in an attempt to get the marriage annulled. They told him that according to the Society's new procedure manual. no divorces or annulments would be allowed for any reason. In addition, all marriages now have to be approved by the local body of elders.


    DAY 81

    Sam Greene was reinstated today. He is still unhappy, but keeps his thoughts to himself now.


    DAY 89

    We are all in a state of shock! Rob committed suicide today. I guess the idea of spending eternity with Sally was not acceptable to him. The elders refused to let us hold a funeral service. I volunteered to bury my friend. Brother Thorn instructed me to bury him in the common grave where we had put the worldly persons. No one came to the grave side, not even his widow. I said a prayer for my friend. I will miss Rob greatly.


    DAY 100

    Life is becoming miserable for many of us. The elders keep placing new rules on us every day. We are told we must lead holy lives of service and submission. No dissent or discussion is allowed. It seems like we had more freedom before Armageddon. I never though I would be nostalgic about the old world


    DAY 111

    I cant take it here anymore. I am going to travel to my brother's place, about a hundred miles from here. Traveling on foot I think I can make it in about five days. I wish I could get gasoline for my car. I'll have to sneak out since the elders still aren't giving anyone permission to travel. I have stored some food and plan to leave tonight after the curfew. I hope my brother is still alive, maybe he will know if Mom and Dad are okay.


    DAY 112

    I made it out of town today. I wonder if They miss me yet? The destruction in the countryside is incredible. How will we ever rebuild everything? I've seen quite a few skeletons already. I guess there Is still a lot of burial work to do before we build a paradise.


    DAY 113

    I ran into a group of brothers from Westview congregation. I was detained at gunpoint! Brother Thorn had gotten word to them to be on the outlook for me. I am furious. Why can't I visit my brother ?


    DAY 114

    Ed Thorn and two ministerial servants arrived today to escort me back "home". They were all carrying guns.


    DAY 115

    After my attempted escape and several other disciplinary problems involving other brothers, the elders have now set up a gun-toting police force. I was, of course, disfellowshipped at the morning meeting. I have been assigned to latrine duty.


    DAY 116

    I was instructed to report to the Kingdom Hall after work for "additional instruction." I saw Sam Greene and a couple of other "troublemaker's" there. We were subjected to an hour of "reindoctrination," mostly the usual crap about maintaining a servants spirit and not to think too much of ourselves. We were told to come back next week for more of the same.


    DAY 123

    I blew up today at the reindoctrination meeting. I told Ed Thorn that I was sick of him acting like a theocratic Hitler. I also told him that I was leaving the community and that he better not try to slop me. My mistake. Thorn called his police force in and had me arrested. I am being detained under armed guard in a makeshift jail cell in the Kingdom Hall basement.


    DAY 124

    My judicial hearing is scheduled for tomorrow. Sam Greene came by to see me. When the guards were out of ear shot, he told me that his efforts to contact the Society about the local elders had done no good. He had been told by the Society to keep quiet and obey the elders without question. Sam is very depressed about this and about my situation.


    DAY 125

    My judicial hearing was held today. Ed Thorn acted as lead prosecutor. I, of course had no defense counsel and could call no witnesses. After the hearing which was held in secret, I was judged guilty of being an unrepentant apostate. I was solemnly informed that according to the Society's instructions (as contained in "ORGANIZATION FOR THE NEW WORLD"), the punishment for apostasy is death by stoning. My execution is scheduled for tomorrow.


    DAY 126

    Well, this is the end. Later today, I will be led out for my execution by stoning. I would rather be shot in the back of the head, but the Society obviously feels that stoning provides a better object lesson. If I get a chance I will throw one of the rocks back at Ed Thorn. The funny thing is that I don't really feel so bad about my impending demise. This New World Society is not my idea of a paradise and I don't want to live with these people for all eternity. From paradise lost to paradise regained to paradise lost again.


    EPILOGUE

    Everyone turned out for my stoning, even the kids. Ed Thorn solemnly pronounced my death sentence and then quoted scripture telling everyone to "not to let their eye feel sorry." No one did. My only regret is that they tied my hands behind my back so that I couldn't return any of their rocks with interest. Not very sporting. The last thing I saw before the lights went out was a sickening smirk on Thorn's face. Then I woke up. In Heaven. And there was St. Peter. "Welcome to Paradise, my child" he said as he gently took my hand. Confused, I said "But I thought paradise was back on Earth with the Witnesses." "No," explained St. Peter, "That was Hell."

  • Poztate
    Poztate
    *** w99 3/1 p. 17 ?The Temple? and ?the Chieftain? Today ***
    In the new world, Jesus will appoint ?princes in all the earth? to take the lead among Jehovah?s worshipers on earth. (Psalm 45:16) No doubt he will select many of these from among the faithful elders of today. Because these men are proving themselves now, he will choose to entrust many with even greater privileges in the future when he reveals the role of the chieftain class in the new world.

    The whole WTS system is based on the carrot and the stick. I remember a WT back in the early 70's talking about the elders and how they would be princes in the new system. The one elder I was studying with was quie excited about this. His job and position in life was not that high but soon....very soon he would be a PRINCE ruling over all the earth. They give you a carrot for the future but if that doesn't work they don't mind giving you the stick..NOW

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    A number of years ago I was part of a particular service organization. For a while I used to dedicate a large amount of my time to this organization. And now when I look back I realize that my motivation wasn't primarily my dedication to the cause but it was more for the recognition and acknowledgement. And that was totally based on my own initiative. I can really see how a JW can get caught up in that mindset, particularly with the mystical, divine element wrapped up in it.

  • formerout
    formerout

    Blondie,

    Thanks for the "Diary". It really makes you think, eh? There were some funny parts, sad parts and ultimately a happy ending. The most important thing is that the ending is the closest to reality of their teaching. I thought it was brilliant.

    Brad

  • JustTickledPink
    JustTickledPink

    I keep wondering when the WOMEN are going to stand up and say they've had enough.

    The women of this country (USA) have fought long and hard for equal rights... and yet, it seems like the JW women are happy and content to sit by and listen to all the windbags dictate life.

    Even if I believed their crap, as a woman I would take issue with how a single woman can't be onstage, that it has to be 2 sisters together doing some demonstration, or some 5 minute bit. But a single man can be up there.... WHY WHY WHY ??? These rules make no sense. Maybe the carrot isn't as attractive to women, I am not sure. Maybe we don't crave power and attention like the men do... I really don't know. But the inequality in "priveledges" and "power" is so evident.

    There is such a hierachy, it's nuts.

    And remember too, the priveledge of giving a prayer at the meeting? They will coach some young brother until he is ready to finally pray for everyone. I'm sorry but praying is just talking to God, and everyone can talk.

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