I guess I'm missing the point of metatron's contrast between reform and mainstreaming. If the JW religion 'mainstreams' to the point that it becomes just another Protestant sect, has it not 'reformed' itself? Considering the ultra-conservative attitude of the WT, wouldn't mainstreaming be a reform unto itself? I don't see the difference - someone help me here....
Why Mainstreaming Will Win and Reform Won't
by metatron 23 Replies latest jw friends
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philo
hybridous,
Reform usually needs reformers, imho.
I think mainstreaming implies dilution: of ideas, of the motivation of individuals, and of distinctivness. For the watchtower, like a mountain stream, it's days of rapids and waterfalls, drinkable water, and elegant meanerings of doctrine are over. What we now see is a slow moving, evenly polluted, tributary heading to meet the sea of mankind where it will be lost.
philo
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Bendrr
Now you're making me wish I had continued making some meetings and conventions to keep up with the changes! My parents who are still JW keep in touch but don't discuss anything teaching-wise.
This post on reform vs. mainstreaming caught my interest. Based on what I have read in my short time here on this board, I think the term 'reform' is closer to the mark than 'mainstreaming' though in this case they really mean the same thing. Reform is a better term since over time certain doctrines and practices can be "re-formed".
The Empire will never be "mainstream". They will always have to maintain their "aboveness" in the eyes of the rank-and-file.
As far as subtle reforming over time, I welcome it. I have tried to imagine what changes could happen.
Disfellowshipping: Policy gradually softens. New Light! If a JW married to a DF'd one isn't required to shun then neither should be the rest of the family; parents, children, grandparents, etc. Then close friends (the scripture about King David and Johnathan "a friend closer than a brother") can associate. Finally it merely means you can't go in service, comment at meetings, or have any organizational duty. Shunning will end up being left up to consciences, and there will always be hardliners at every level to be nasty to the miscreants.
Higher Education: How many of the six million dubs are children? The old guys in Brooklyn are NOT stupid. The money in the contribution box comes from those that can spare it. The better job one has, the more money they can spare for the box. In many areas it is already perfectly acceptable to get some sort of post-secondary education and in fact it is considered something to be praised. There may end up being technical training on a large scale for Bethelites at secular schools paid for by The Empire to attract new Bethelites.
Pioneers will probably end up being just "Pioneer" instead of "Regular" and "Auxiliary" with a much more reasonable quota like 40 or 50 hours a month.
Or maybe the term will be done away with whatsoever, as it glorifies a person and not Jehovah.
If a publisher misses a month of field service, they can always go out the next month; no more use of the term "irregular".
There will always be the moral doctrines. Sex only between a married man and woman and that little list of "can't-do's". Never a JW tobacco user, but drink all you want.
They may end up using modern media to get the message out sooner than later. With 5000 cable channels for everything from cooking to golf there WILL end up being some sort of JW broadcast.
I really hope that they start reaching out to their young people like mainstream religion does. That would be the biggest reform of all.
mike."Well done, Blind Squirrel! You've found an impressive nut!
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Maximus
For Defender and others who may miss this trenchant post.
M
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Jang
I think that mainstreaming will be reforming Metranon. Thos who want reform see both as one and the same. The whole idea is to bring about enough changes to make it a safer place for people emptionally and physically and to give them the freedom to leave and even change to another belief without the ostracising that now takes place.
That is Mainstreaming/Reform
Since we all agree something has to happen, we can all work toward the same goal.
JanG
CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/ -
Pork Chop
a rose by any other name smells as sweet
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Mulan
RE: birthdays and birthday parties......
God forbid, a child should feel special for one day out of the year. The other day, I was with Princess and her children. The 3 year old was singing the Happy Birthday song in the back seat, so we stopped talking to hear who she was singing to. It was to Sleeping Beauty. That was soooo cute.
In our family (I was raised in it) we didn't celebrate our birthdays, but they were definitely observed, if there is a difference. No cakes, or wrapped presents, but we always knew it was our birthday, and felt special for it. Mom always called me on my birthday, after I was married, even if I was out of state with my husband on vacation. She never missed, not once. With my brother in law, who was a year younger than I am, we both sent scathing, insulting birthday cards to each other from age 30 on. Last year my very loyal, JW mother, bought me an expensive birthday present. She gave it to me the day before my birthday, and said it wasn't a birthday present, with a big grin on her face. I take her to lunch every year on her birthday, and she happily accepts. But, I did that before I left the Borg too. Maybe we just had more liberal birthday ideas. We didn't talk about it though. It was a family thing.
When I turned 50, we were still dubs, and my cousin gave a small Over the Hill party for me with a cake, gifts, and the whole bit. There were six of us there.
Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
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ros
It used to be that the Watchtower was regarded as infallible, now "no body's perfect".
It used to be that a person could disassociate and not be shunned. Now, highly conspicuous violators of Organization policy can't even get DF'd, but they're shunned anyway.
When has the WTS ever NOT reformed? They have just called it "new light" or in the case of the generation change, "more precise understanding". Your term "mainstream" is probably a better term than "reform" for the direction they are headed.
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noidea
I have a Question:
If one can celebrate a birthday and not get DF, Then why can't they celebrate Christmas when it is suppose to be based on Jesus Birthday? -
cornish
In the past voting was considered a very serious compromise, allying oneself with Satans wicked system, so serious absolutely unthinkable for most J Ws. Witnesses in Malawi suffered terribly because it was considered such a serious compromise for them to carry a party state ID card, which was in that country was simply an I D card, this was for less a step down voting itself and what so many witnesses in Malawi suffered so terribly for what the watchtower has mail backtracked on so at much.
Before voting was considered a dissfellowshiping offence, now even if any J W openly votes they cannot be dissfellowshiped or even removed from privleges for it, in the future many JWs will have no problem with voting at all. In the future it will gradually be seen as not so important and serious a thing to most J Ws and in the end with new converts coming along Jehovahs witnesses will vote just like the public in general thus giving the religion more political clout.