by blondie 28 Replies latest watchtower bible
Something that caught my attention:
Today, the nations of the world, including those of Christendom, reflect the corrupt condition of ancient Israel. While some people prosper, many are ruined financially and damaged emotionally by the immoral practices of dishonest leaders of big business, politics, and false religion.
Thanks for the opportune information, Watchtower! Most JWD members can attest the veracity of the above words.
Neo
Neither persecution incited by opposers nor complacency displayed by those to whom we preach will silence us. Showing zeal (which JWs have not been)?impelled to continue declaring the good news with boldness. We have a responsibility to warn people of Jehovah?s coming judgment.I remember years ago when we had the decree at an assembly and some sort of a campaign and we were told that this would be the final warning to those involved in Babylon the great. I remember going out door with some who really took this mesage to heart and really laid it on the householder (I was never that bold) After that we were back to the message about God's kingdom being the panacea for all of mankind's woes. Sounds like they are going back to the old hard line message again. Don't know why they think this will work now when it never worked before. Threatening and judging people is not a good way to entice them into joining an already unpopular religion. The Org is losing it. Do I sense a new book study publication on the book of Amos in the works? I predict they will lose a few more if that is the case. I really lost it half way through the study of the Isaiah book--what a bunch of boring nonsense that was. cybs
Thanks Neo for pointing out their definate Freudian Slip!
I wonder if the WTS is going to try to get numbers back up by playing with the egos of the rank and file by describing them as prophets like they used to.
Awake 1986 6/8 p. 9 "Would That All Were Prophets!" ******
You will be interested to learn that God has on earth a people, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God. In fact, they are known throughout the world as Jehovah?s Witnesses.
Thank you Blondie ... your work is well appreciated around here. And gosh no one told me I'd be a prohet if I just stuck around for a few more years (yeah right)
``The appropriate application of Amos' message, then, would be for the Watchtower society to honestly look at their own shortcomings, and correct them before it is too late.''
Right on, jgnat; you've hit upon an important point: why is it that, when it suits them, we're asked to believe that apostate Israel and/or Judah, pictures Christendom, when in point of fact, the closest parallel would have to be them, since Israel/Judah are portrayed as ``God's typical theocracy," his first ``earthly organization-- through good times and bad?"
Are they only such during the relatively brief periods when ruler over by a good king? (By one count, 28 of Israel/Judah's 42 kings were rotten), and then revert to depicting Christendom when the baddies took over the rulership?
Blondie, kudos for a superlative job once again, and Happy Holidays to you, Irreverent and all on this forum.
Yah according to them they were always the good guys , only the good scriptures ever applied and everybody else got the bad scriptures . Jesus himself exsplained that there would be good guys and bad guys within the church . The apostle Paul also had problems with these types of things when the congregations were boasting about super fine apostles . I think for one thing these people claiming to be anointed need to open up and discuss why they are anointed and I don't want to hear the old we are anointed because we feel that way crap . They have been wrong about way too many things to boast in themselves . It's like the old, what's your line show , will the real anointed please stand up .
Just look at the level of idiocy this propaganda contains:
Today, the nations of the world,
the nations of the world. Huh? So the world is made up of nations? And the unique characteristic of nations is that they are "of the world". Thank you so much for this enlightening observation.
including those of Christendom,
Huh? So what are those nations of Christendom? Italy? Ireland? Poland? Surely not France or Sweden? Is the US a nation of Christendom? In what sense so? Please someone give me a clue. Ha. They must have meant the Vatican State! But it's not a nation, is it?
reflect the corrupt condition of ancient Israel.
I guess it doesn't take much courage to depict ancient Israel as the prototype of all evil. What a piece of utter bs anyway.
While some people prosper, many are
Do I sense populist marxism here?
ruined financially and damaged emotionally by the immoral practices of dishonest leaders
Neo has already commented on it.
of big business,
Like the WTS is always staying clear of it. If it wasn't for "big business" and financial markets how would they invest their big bucks?
politics,
No, the WTS never took part in world politics. Except when they needed a library card.
and false religion.
ditto.
Pole
Thanks, Zeke.
Oh, and there will be a meeting for field service in about 15 minutes up in the front of the hal
What a joke that arrangement was! 99 times out of a 100, the brother assigned to conduct did not go out himself or went off by himself or only with his immediate family to make a "few" return visits. Translation?one attempt. I can remember that about 2 times a year there would be a special needs part "encouraging" the rank and file to "support" this arrangement. The R&F saw the support the elders gave it and said, not me. Most congregations around here finally made it an automatic assignment that the chairman that Sunday automatically took the group out after the meeting. Even then a lot of those elders delegated it to some up and coming MS. Can?t do that now with so few MS in the congos.
Hi CCR,
The question that got me was if the WT was the sole source of truth, and they switched to something the mainstream churches believe, wouldn't that mean that the mainstream churches had the truth all along and the JW's are just biblical kooks?
Actually, there have been cases where individual JWs have pointed out that something was not scriptural. Many ended up being DF?d for "running ahead of Jehovah."
Think of Uzzah, the Israelite man who reached out to stop the ark of the covenant from falling off the wagon when it was being transported back to Israel after being hijacked by the Philistines. The Law said no one could touch it or die. Uzzah died because he tried to correct matters without following the chain of command.
The WTS applies this to JWs who point out where the WTS is wrong. They are supposed to wait for God or rather the WTS to do it.
*** w00 10/1 p. 32 Are You Discreet? ***
Those to whom Jesus Christ has entrusted "all his belongings" are described in God?s Word as "faithful and discreet." (Matthew 24:45-47) They do not immodestly run ahead of Jehovah on an impulsive whim; nor do they lag behind when God?s direction in a matter is clear. They know when it is time to speak and when it is time to wait silently for further clarification. All Christians do well not only to imitate their faith but also to prove themselves discreet, as the slave class does.?Hebrews 13:7.
***
w97 6/1 pp. 13-14 A Secret Christians Dare Not Keep! ***In contrast with humans, who have a limited life span, Jehovah never feels pressured by time to reveal his secrets prematurely. This fact should prevent us from becoming impatient when certain Bible questions cannot presently be explained to our satisfaction. Modesty on the part of the faithful and discreet slave class, commissioned to provide the Christian household with food at the proper time, prevents it from presumptuously running ahead and wildly speculating about things that are still unclear. The slave class strives to avoid being dogmatic. It is not too proud to admit that as of now it cannot answer every question, keeping Proverbs 4:18 clearly in mind. But how thrilling to know that Jehovah, in his own due time and in his own way, will continue to reveal his secrets as to his purposes! Never should we become impatient with Jehovah?s arrangement, indiscreetly trying to rush ahead of the Revealer of secrets. How reassuring it is to know that the channel Jehovah is using today does not do so! It is both faithful and discreet.?Matthew 24:45; 1 Corinthians 4:6.
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w88 5/1 p. 13 The Challenge of Following in His Footsteps ***Not keeping pace with Christ could mean one of two things. Either we try to go faster, running ahead of "the faithful and discreet slave" that Jesus is using to accomplish Jehovah?s purpose, or we lag behind in following that ?slave?s? direction. (Matthew 24:45-47) As an example of the first, some Christians have in times past become impatient about doctrinal or organizational changes or refinements that they felt were necessary and overdue. Becoming disgruntled because they felt things were not moving quickly enough, they withdrew from Jehovah?s people. How foolish and how shortsighted! Often the very thing that upset them was later changed?in Jehovah?s due time.?Proverbs 19:2; Ecclesiastes 7:8, 9.
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w73 6/15 p. 370 Are You Ready for Life in God?s New Order? *** We have an example to guide us in the occasion of David?s attempt to bring the ark of the covenant to Jerusalem. Rather than having the ark transported on poles on the shoulders of the Kohathite Levites (according to the Law), it was placed in a wagon. At a certain point the cattle pulling the wagon "nearly caused an upset," and a man named Uzzah reached out and grabbed hold of the ark. What resulted? Jehovah God "struck him down there for the irreverent act, so that he died there close by the ark." (2 Sam. 6:1-7) What was wrong? God?s law specifically prohibited any but the authorized priestly representatives from touching the sacred ark, on pain of death. The law was publicly known, and as Uzzah was undoubtedly a Levite (but not a priest), he should have known better than others God?s express command. He chose to violate that command, perhaps assuming that circumstances warranted it. He may have felt that if he did not act to steady the ark it was sure to fall. If so, he lacked faith in God?s power to care for matters in such a way that none of his servants need disobey his express commands. On the other hand, he may have thought he had an opportunity to make a ?hero? of himself, gaining lasting fame as ?Uzzah, the man who kept the sacred ark from falling.? Either way he showed disrespect. Unscriptural actions and methods, presumptuousness and usurpation are never justified. With so many causes for rejoicing in God?s new order, any initial conditions then reflecting human imperfection should not cause us to become heated up nor to speak or act rashly. We need to ?keep our senses in all things,? realizing that the principle, "better is the end afterward of a matter than its beginning," will hold true even in the thousand-year reign of God?s Son, and "better is one who is patient than one who is haughty in spirit . . . for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones."?2 Tim. 4:5; Eccl. 7:8, 9. If we are not authorized to act in a certain matter, we can inform those who are. Rather than thereafter impatiently try to ?steady the ark? ourselves, we can then show trust in God?s direction of matters, confident that in time he will cause only good to result. As Psalm 4:4 counsels: "Be agitated, but do not sin. Have your say in your heart, upon your bed, and keep silent."?Compare Psalm 63:6-8. We can, therefore, prepare for God?s new order now by showing respect for the arrangements his Son puts into effect in the Christian congregation, having the certainty that Jehovah God and Christ Jesus are never uninformed or unaware of things needing adjustment or correction.Hi Badger,
Midnight Runners?my husband would know who they are.
Boldness" is the LAST thing that most Elders or the WTS want their sheep to have any of.
And if you have it, they will beat it out of you.
Aint it true, willyloman,
It was the realization that we couldn't rely on anything we heard at the KH. It was all fantasy and just didn't square with the reality we saw going on all around us.
First, you think it is just that that individual is a little off in understanding and will soon be adjusted. Then you realize they have quite a lot of support for other JWs with authority?you still think the CO will come and things will be soon adjusted?then you think it is just that congregation?just that circuit?just that area of the country?just that country?I?m outta here.
Hey, jgnat,
It is so much easier to judge others than to look at ourselves.
That?s true, but then my judgments don?t lead to people being shunned by their friends and family. The WTS motto is sins by others lead to their death, our sins are merely a sign of imperfection and should be overlooked.
Bluesbrother
, here?s a statement by the WTS that is clear.w89 9/1 p. 19 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium ***Only Jehovah?s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. (Revelation 7:9-17; 2 Corinthians 4:4) They will make up the "flesh" that Jesus Christ said would be saved through the worst tribulation of all human history.
It also proves them to be liars when they answer a straight "No" on their website to the FAQ " Do they [JW's} believe that they are the only ones who will be saved?"Hi heathen,Growing up as a JW, I found it hard to understand how the WTS distanced themselves from being the Israel mentioned in this scriptures, since they said they were the only true Israel today saying there were lifted up and approved by God in 1919 even though they were still celebrating Christmas and birthdays, and using the cross which by WTS definition would have made the WTS unclean.I think it is much like jgnat said above about Judah and Israel pointing fingers at each other?when both were religiously unclean.Welcome Neo,
The "study" on the Prophets are merely an excuse for the Watchtower to advance their propaganda and scare tactics. Ask any Witness right after these studies what's the main idea in, say, the Bible book of Amos, and barely anyone of them will be able to sum it up in a straightforward manner.Good point, that?s why the WTS prefers to use the OT rather than the NT to make their scary points. Most older JWs would remember Amos 3:7 since the WTS uses it so often to show that they know the truth because God has revealed it to them because they are the FDS and that they are the FDS because God has revealed "the truth" to them.Mr. Flash,
And as always Jesus Christ is practicaly ignored!That?s because their head is always in the OT.Hey again Neo,
many are ruined financially and damaged emotionally by the immoral practices of dishonest leaders of big business, politics, and false religion.
Thanks for the opportune information, Watchtower! Most JWD members can attest the veracity of the above words.Can you think of some ways: Discourgaing additional education, telling those in Malawi to be mutilated, raped, killed for not buying a political card but letting the JWs in Mexico bribe the officials for a military card, encouraging women to stay with abusive husbands, concealing sexual abusers in their midst?.Hi Cybersista, glad to see your computer up and running,
we were told that this would be the final warning to those involved in Babylon the great.I remember that; the idea would be that there was no hope for changing but it would be a judgment announcement to them?I think the WTS has toned that down.
Do I sense a new book study publication on the book of Amos in the works?I think someone posted on JWD that they are going to study the Daniel book again. Amos is too short for one book, they would have to combine it with another like they did Haggai and Zechariah.Elsewhere, maybe, if most JWs weren?t so dense
I wonder if the WTS is going to try to get numbers back up by playing with the egos of the rank and file by describing them as prophets like they used to.Most would only see it apply to the anointed?.and especially the FDS?the days of Fred Franz are gone and fading.Welcome back, Panda, long time no see,
And gosh no one told me I'd be a prohet if I just stuck around for a few more years (yeah right)I?d settle for making a profit.Good point Room 215,
the closest parallel would have to be them, since Israel/Judah are portrayed as ``God's typical theocracy," his first ``earthly organization-- through good times and bad?"
Are they only such during the relatively brief periods when ruler over by a good king? (By one count, 28 of Israel/Judah's 42 kings were rotten), and then revert to depicting Christendom when the baddies took over the rulership?I thought that too, since I was a teenager.Heathen,
Yah according to them they were always the good guysActually, they are like Judah and Israel saying the other one was bad, when they both failed God and lost their political independence .Hey Pole,
So the world is made up of nations?The WTS does that so JWs don?t feel bad about the over 6 billion men, women and children that they pray destruction for every day.Actually, a nation of Christendom is any country where the main religion purports to be Christian.
No, the WTS never took part in world politics. Except when they needed a library card.http://www.randytv.com/secret/emailNGO.htm Good comments, everyone. I can look forward to the next 2 weeks then of Amos. Happy Holidays to everyoneBlondie
Actually, a nation of Christendom is any country where the main religion purports to be Christian.
It's easy to write off an entire country as a bunch of evil doers by classifying it as "a nation of Christendom". While it still makes some sense to say Iran is "a nation of Islamdom", I wonder which western country could be nowadays described as a "nation of Christendom". The only Chritian-like thing most citizens of such "nations" have in common is perhaps Christmas, which is also "celebrated" in one form or another by most atheists anyway.
Czech Republic is 60% atheist, so is it a nation of Christendom?
Poland is said to be 94% Catholic, but if you ask real people around, it turns out that you have 10-20% of zealots, 10-20% of relatively active Catholics (many of them elderly anyway), and the whole rest of "inactive" Catholics, atheists, agnostics and other.
The term "nation of Christendom" is an archaism which has been used by the WT for at least the last 55 years and has lost sociological validity. They should update their lingo. Just look at this gem from the 1950s. Doesn't it ring the bell? THe same propaganda, same labelling, same stereotypes:
*** w50 3/1 p. 68 A Call to Praise ***
Nevertheless, in the nations of the earth, particularly in Christendom there is today a great pretense at praising God. Imposing church buildings and temples are everywhere to be found, with paid clergy to direct man?s praise.
Pole
