Does the averageJW really believe it is the truth?

by whatistruth 36 Replies latest jw friends

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  gumby

  Craig.....I'll have to disagree with you about the average dub today believing whether it's the truth or not. My take on it is that they believe it's the truth, they just have a hard time understanding the reasoning behind these truths and following all advise given by the slave regarding these truths.

  Most dubs really believe the Organisation has nailed biblical truths correctly such as no hellfire, immortality of the soul, or trinity. They also believe that celebrations did indeed have a pagan backround. They believe living a morally clean lifestyle is the best route and they believe politics and religion should not be mixed in the same bowl.

  It seems the problem they have is really believing many of these things they aren't supposed to believe in.......really brings harm to people and not some good.

  As an example.......a witness mother and daughter having lunch together and at the table next to them, a little girl is getting happy birthday sung to her by the resteraunt staff. Both the witness mother and daughter realise there seems to be no problem resulting from this little celebration and that this little girl is happy and so is the mom . They both see that birthdays bring no harm and seems like only lots of harmless fun.....yet they believe and have been taught this is pagan. Part of them believes it's truly a pagan celebration, yet a part of them doesn't see any harm or bad results in those that participate in them.

  Gumby
• 

  Oxnard Hamster

  JWs seem to well... "if someone gave you a new rolls royce, and it had no wheels, the emblem was gone, and it had a few dents in it would you refuse it?

  Funny how I can see through their arguements now that I'm out. Of course I wouldn't refuse a new Rolls Royce even with a few missing parts, but the JWs adamantly claim their religion is the truth, the only truth. So if it has a few "dents", then it can't be the absolute truth. Simple.
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  Gill

  I think that most believe that God is going to destroy the system of things and they want to survive and be in 'the ark' of salvation. They don't want to die and have bought into a myth. I always wanted to know what was coming in the year 3000 and 4000. Finally I got real. I never will know and what makes me more worthy than my next door neighbour to find out? Going to the meetings? Going in field service? No, I don't think so.

  Now I face the realities and accept them. But that takes time. If you've spent your whole life in a dream like state it takes a little while to wake up and smell the coffee, but I don't think that all witnesses will ever wake up, just most, I hope will in another thirty to forty years perhaps.
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  redhotchilipepper

  Yes I think those poor pitiful people actually do!
• 

  Carmel

  (I'll hold Gumby and Craig's coats whilst they arm wrestle...

  carm
• 

  onacruse

  LOL @ Carmel

  Mr. Gumster:

  My take on it is that they believe it's the truth, they just have a hard time understanding the reasoning behind these truths and following all advise given by the slave regarding these truths.

  I agree; but then isn't that a litmus test for whether they really believe it is the truth? If they can't understand it, much less explain it, then how can they, in their heart of hearts, truly believe? For example, how many JWs did we know who could, on the spot, actually explain, openly and without hesitation, the reasoning about 1914? Or blood transfusions? Or why a JW shouldn't be a policeman? Or, what is the remnant? Too many loose ends to make one much of a true believer; although, as you mention, disbelieving in hellfire is a winner, though imo by default of ordinary human sentiment, and not by reason of logical demonstration, which plays into your next:

  It seems the problem they have is really believing many of these things they aren't supposed to believe in.......really brings harm to people and not some good.

  A worthy distinction. That's what got me to thinking that belief is one thing, and disbelief is another. Logically, there shouldn't be a distinction between the two, but, practically, it seems like there often is, especially when "core" emotions are involved. For example, one of the things I had great difficulty understanding was how certain well-established JWs could apparently disregard the WTS's advice against planning for the future; they had rental homes and stock options and vacation homes and yet didn't pioneer--how did that jive with Armageddon being right around the corner? Well, it cut against their inner convictions, and so they did what they wanted: not true believers, but by no means deserving of getting the boot. Your example about birthday celebrations is another good case-in-point; many JWs I knew didn't give a poop about the WTS's anti-birthday policy--although they wouldn't overtly have a party, for fear of being "disciplined."

  In my own little slice of experience in JWism, it does seem like there is an ongoing secularization, both in terms of the general attitude of JWs, and in terms of how the WTS is slackening on certain issues (e.g. college, hours required to be a pioneer, etc); imo a sign of resignation to the inevitable--the true believers are disappearing.
• 

  gumby

  Damn Carmel.....he's holding my coat and letting it drag the ground while I'm pinning Craig!

  Craigster......I see where you are coming from and I agree ....to a degree.

  Here's another example. Two dubs practice oral sex....even though it can be a disfellowshipping offence if it comes to the attention of the elders that a couple openly admitted to it. Why do they do this when the slave they follow says it's a no no?

  They do it because many do not fully believe or understand ALL the society's viewpoints on matters......but at the same time believe god is with this group and has his backing. I guess what it boils down to is they must believe the points they differ on is not life threatening if they disobey....such as practicing oral sex. They don't REALLY believe Jehovah will kill them if they celebrate a birthday, although they believe perhaps the birthday celebration had a pagan beggining.

  So, I suppose you are correct in saying "they truly don't believe" certain things....even though they will preach contrary to it for fear of disobeying those who can punish if you disobey.

  So Carmel......who pinned who?

  Gumby
• 

  XQsThaiPoes

  I think you guys are all saying the same thing. Basically a large group of JWs don't believe most of what the watchtower says but feel that via osmosis God will basically let them in the VIP. It is like knowing a famous person getting complementary tickets to their events, speacial passes maybe a few photos, but at the end of the day you go back to your every day life, and they go back to their realm of stardom.
  
  So many JWs are living their life cussing, giving oral sex, doubting that they or anyone they know will see the end, but because they are a groupie they will be ressurected regardless in to a perfect world by those hip annointed chaps.
  
  As time goes on the number of JWs that are JWs by association will, and are taking over. THe elder body is collapsing because there is no male clean enough or expericence enough to replace the baby boomers. THey are to the point of asking any young male that regularly attends the congregation do they want to be an elder, and if they do immediately deputized MS. If you attend and are unbaptized they really grease the wheels to let you in. Unless they change to female overseers the core will and is rotting out of the church.
  
  I told my mother this and she swore it is not true. Then I asked her name the new adult male JWs at the hall that ARE NOT my childhood play mates, their fathers, or JWs we already know, but were relocated (begged) by the co to replace the elders that are too old, or infirmed to serve. There is only one and he basically spilt from his wife and kids back east, and is try figure how to work on a wife number 2 out west.
  
  Even thought they have different theologies JWs is becoming the catholic church.
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  PinTail

  I can only speak for myself dude, in view of the fact they have so much BS in their teachings how can they or anyone else for that matter say they have the truth? Come on now, wake up and smell the cat food!

  They have been snowing so many people for so long until the Internet came a long thank god for the net.
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  XQsThaiPoes

  Pin um in all reality there net has lil to do with disproving the wts. It has always been critically examined and many of its expousings proved false. The thing is the information age basically allows people who normally would never bother to do something on their own to have instant access to it privately. Look what the net has done with the porn industry.
  
  I am sure you know that, but the impression that the wts was "hidding" things sucessfully before the net is not exactly true. You can go to your local library 30 years ago and disprove many of the the teachings, or find as much of the dirt as you wanted. And hence the "apostates" were born and using the tech of the time they printed their lil fliers.
  
  I think if anything the info age has made the jws trust the media, and science. So if you show them a new clipping or a national geographic they mostly agree with the findings, but still give excuses. Look at how the theory of evolution has progressed.Now most rational people wont disputed it, just cloud the issue with "what ifs". I remember when JWs believed dinosaurs were basically the bones of large contemporary mammals, and reptiles that were jumbled up at the flood and wrongly put back together by scientist. Then it progressed to dinos living at the flood. Now a dinosaur is a dinosaur and It lived 65 million years ago.