I have been seriously thinking that JW's and Born-Again Christians have both been victims of the Armaggeddon/Rapture merry go round. Christians have been looking for the Rapture for 2000 years and still nothing has happened. JW's have been looking for Armaggeddon for over 130 years now and still nothing has happened. Instead of" bashing" each other constantly they should work together and see how many suicides within JW's and Born-Agains(yes BA's committ suicide also) they can prevent, they should work together to see how many people on drugs and alcohol they could possibly help, because I know a friend of mine that was heavily into the Born-Again movement recently had a nervous breakdown. With all of the trying to please Jesus, and trying to convert non-born agains, the pressure was just too overwhelming and he snapped. Many JW's have had nervous breakdowns as well. So JW's and BA's have more in common then they would like to admit. Both groups have been made to look like fools when it comes to Armaggeddon/Rapture. Come on now how long is these events going to take to come? What happens if nothing has happened in the year 3000 will JW's and BA's concede and admit that they were duped into believing a "fantasy" or will they continue singing the old tired song Armaggeddon/Rapture is just around the corner.
Have JW's and Born-Agains been taking for a ride with Armaggeddon/Rapture?
by booker-t 8 Replies latest jw friends
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AK - Jeff
Come on now how long is these events going to take to come? What happens if nothing has happened in the year 3000 will JW's and BA's concede and admit that they were duped into believing a "fantasy" or will they continue singing the old tired song Armaggeddon/Rapture is just around the corner.
Since the Borg adjusts a new date on average about every ten years or so - then I expect they would have recieved a minimum of 100 new might understandings by then on the matter of the date. Funny, I seem to remember that Christ said 'no man knows the day or the hour'. Maybe by 3000 they will figure that out?
Naw!
Jeff
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JustTickledPink
as long as there are people out there wanting someone to tell them lies, they will exist.
Once people all refuse to believe in it, it will all die off.
Just like the idea that the earth was square and you could fall off, people now realize it's round.
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Bonnie_Clyde
You do know that Armageddon will be here before the end of the millenium. Remember the millenium brochure from a couple of years ago?
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Bonnie_Clyde
I'm sorry. I lost track of time. It must have been four years ago.
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FairMind
No earthly man or organization knows exactly when the end of this system or present world will occur. This includes the WTS or any other religious organization.
Personally I believe that the Bible is the word of God. Since I believe this, then I could not with good conscience say I don’t believe we are living in the time of the end. My opinion is based not on a date but on what I perceive as indisputable proof of the things occurring that Jesus said would mark the last days.
Now let’s suppose that the Bible is not God’s word, wouldn’t the present course of mankind still suggest that we are marching down the road to something climatic and terrible? The way I see it is that if there is no God to step in and stop us, things will only grow worse, not better. We will (1) Run out of Oil and see global starvation (2) see nuclear war and also use of nuclear devices by terrorists (3) experience devastating changes in climate due to global warming and deforestation (4) experience the nightmares of biological warfare. I know that all of this sounds a little doom and gloom but mankind now has the technological capabilities to initiate his own destruction in all of the foregoing ways.
The permanent forestalling of worldwide calamity would depend on NO ONE WHO IS EVIL ever acquiring the power to use the means of destruction now available. It would also depend on GOOD MEN cooperating together without selfish motives. I don’t think either of these propositions can occur on a permanent basis. When will the end come? I don’t know but it will come!
FM
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Narkissos
As I was not sure to remember exactly the WT view on "rapture" I checked the last reference to it (Watchtower 93 1/15 p. 4-7):
?Caught
Away to Meet the Lord??How?THE countdown to the end of the present wicked system continues irrevocably. With the passing of every hour, every minute, every second, we approach striking events prophesied long ago. Is the rapture one of these? If it is, when and how will it occur?
The word "rapture" does not appear in the Bible. But those who believe in it cite the apostle Paul?s words at 1 Thessalonians 4:17 as the basis for their belief. Let us examine this scripture in its context. Paul wrote:
"Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant concerning those who are sleeping in death; that you may not sorrow just as the rest also do who have no hope. For if our faith is that Jesus died and rose again, so, too, those who have fallen asleep in death through Jesus God will bring with him. For this is what we tell you by Jehovah?s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel?s voice and with God?s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord. Consequently keep comforting one another with these words."?1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
The congregation in Thessalonica was relatively new when Paul addressed his first letter to Christians there in about 50 C.E. Members of the congregation were distressed that some of their number were "sleeping in death." However, what Paul wrote comforted the Thessalonians with the resurrection hope.
Christ?s
"Presence"While confirming that faithful Christians then dead would be resurrected, Paul also said: "The living (actually "we the living"; notice the "we" which includes Paul is conveniently dropped) who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death." (Verse 15) Noteworthy, indeed, is the apostle?s reference to the Lord?s "presence." Here the original-language text uses the Greek word pa·rou·si´an, which literally means "being alongside."
When a foreign head of State visits a country, the dates of his presence there are generally announced. This has been true of the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus? presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914. Events since that year testify to Jesus? invisible presence. (Matthew 24:3-14) So by saying that certain Christians living during the Lord?s presence would be "caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air," Paul meant that those survivors would be meeting Christ, not in earth?s atmosphere, but in the invisible heavenly realm where Jesus sits at God?s right hand. (Hebrews 1:1-3) But who are they?
"The
Israel of God"The Scriptures say much about fleshly Israelites and also speak of the spiritual "Israel of God." Jewish and Gentile believers were to make up the full number of this group anointed by God?s holy spirit, or active force. (Galatians 6:16; Romans 11:25, 26; 1 John 2:20, 27) The book of Revelation shows that the total number of spiritual Israel is 144,000, all of whom are depicted with the Lamb, Jesus Christ, on heavenly Mount Zion. Along with Christ, they would be kings and priests in heaven. (Revelation 7:1-8; 14:1-4; 20:6) Included among them would be individuals who had been associated with the congregations in Thessalonica and elsewhere, whatever their racial or national background.?Acts 10:34, 35.
Before any faithful members of spiritual Israel could receive a heavenly reward, they would have to share a certain experience. Just as Jesus? death on the torture stake preceded his resurrection to life in the heavens, so Christians with the heavenly hope must die before receiving their reward. (1 Corinthians 15:35, 36) That would be true of members of spiritual Israel living in the first century C.E. and of such individuals alive today.
After mentioning "the presence of the Lord," Paul pointed to the time when faithful spiritual Israelites who had died would receive their heavenly reward. He wrote: "The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel?s voice and with God?s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first." (Verse 16) Therefore, once Jesus? presence as King began, we would expect the heavenly resurrection to start, commencing with those of spiritual Israel who had already died as integrity keepers. (1 Corinthians 15:23) They now serve alongside Jesus in heaven. But what of the comparatively few anointed Christians still living on the earth? Do they await the rapture?
"Caught
Away"?How?After referring to anointed Christians who had died, Paul added: "Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord." (Verse 17) "The living" would be those alive during Christ?s presence. They would be "caught away" to meet the Lord Jesus. As in the case of faithful early Christians, death as a human is necessary for them to be united with Christ in heaven.?Romans 8:17, 35-39.
In writing to Christians in Corinth, Paul stated: "This I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God?s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Look! I tell you a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep in death, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed." (1 Corinthians 15:50-52) Upon dying in faithfulness during Christ?s presence, each one of the remnant of spiritual Israel instantaneously receives his heavenly reward. "In the twinkling of an eye," he is resurrected as a spirit creature and "caught away" to meet Jesus and to serve as a coruler in the Kingdom of the heavens. But what about all others worshiping Jehovah? As the end of this wicked system approaches, will they also be caught away to heaven?
The WT interpretation blatantly contradicts the text on at least two points: (1) the "rapture" or "change" was expected during the lifetime of the writer (some 1900 years ago) and (2) the "living" who were to be "caught away" or "changed" were explicitly not to die.
To make sense of an obviously failed prophecy centuries later both JWs and BAs have to cheat with some of its terms.
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justhuman
Dooms day cults made in U.S.A
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XQsThaiPoes
I have said this a few times. BA's and JW's are the same religion. One has Jimmy Carter and the other Ike Eisenhower (bad joke I know). The watchtower is retiring Armageddon, and basically replacing it with a watered down rapture (this may changed when the war on terror is "over"). I find it intellectually dishonest when people try to cut JWs out of BA christianity when you can't. Both as JH said are "made in the USA". The only real differences is JWs are unitarian, and they changed the name of purgatory to "paradise earth".