What are your thoughts on the composite sign?

by Leander 19 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Carmel

  It seems most of the responses to your question fall into the same trap of literalism that your question belies. Revelation writing contains mostly metaphores and similies that have little or nothing to do with literal events. They are abstract concepts described by using material symbols. Hence, earthquakes, pestilences, beasts with horns, are not what they seem. Trying to make sense out of biblical text by rendering it as literal does violence to the material.

  I suggest you look for Christian scholars that disassociate themselves from the literalism.

  Cheers,

  carmel
• 

  Mulan

  read it carefully...................Jesus is telling them that these things will always happen. It isn't a sign.
• 

  Gopher

  Another "sign" of the end that JW's often point at is the verse in one of Peter's letters: "In the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, saying where is this promised presence (or coming, or whatever)? Why, all things are the same since our forefather's day."

  So in the mind of many end-timers including JW's, the mere presence of doubters increases their certainty that we are in the LAST DAYS!!

  However, for many centuries there have been people on BOTH sides -- those who try to use the "signs of the end" to scare people, and those who doubt.

  The fact that people are divided over the idea of the "end" is nothing new and will continue, and fails to prove that the end is near.
• 

  AlanF

  There's no such thing as a "composite sign" in the Bible, or in reality. The Bible actually warns against taking such common disasters as a sign of anything. In the 20th century, famine and pestilence kill far fewer on a percentage basis than ever before. War kills roughly the same percentage. The risk of dying in an earthquake is about 3-4 times lower than 300 years ago. So even if the Bible spoke of a sign, it certainly isn't evident today.

  The very commoness of these things argues against their value as a sign. Suppose I said to you, "Leander, meet me at Starbucks on 27th and Vine at nine o'clock in the morning the day after you seen that the sky is blue, the grass is green, and young men are lusting after young women." Would you have a clue about when to meet me? Of course not. Same goes for "the composite sign."

  Keep in mind that the Watchtower Society invented this piece of nonsense in the 1920s, shortly after some disasters occurred, namely, World War I, the Spanish Influenza of 1917-18, and the 1923 Tokyo earthquake that killed some 100,000 people. As usual, they made a bogus doctrine out of little bits of facts. Don't make the same mistake.

  For a comprehensive look at why the Watchtower's "composite sign" doctrine is idiotic, read the book The Sign of the Last Days: When? by Carl Olof Jonsson, available from Freeminds or Commentary Press.

  AlanF
• 

  BrendaCloutier

  Having been out for more than a quarter of a century, I haven't heard of this Composite Sign BS. I guess with the 1975 debacle the WBTS had to come up with something.

  As stated earlier, with the quote from Matthew, we gotta watch out for the rumor mill, of which I think the WTBTS uses to its advantage as often as possible. Hence the fear mongering, also councelled upon in Matthew.

  We live in a very, very small world now, with instant communications. These calamities have gone on for a two (five, 50) millenia and we now have imbedded reporters sending immediate satellite images.

  I don't doubt that there will be some great calamity that will befall humankind and the earth. It's happened before with the ice ages, localized massive floods, flip-flop of the earth's magnetic field, influenza, black plague, famine, volcanic explosion, ergot poisoning, AIDs, Ebola, A-Bomb.

  I don';t fret, since all I have (any of us) is today. "If you have one foot in yesterday, and one foot in tomorrow, you are pissing on today." My favorite quote lately.

  Hugs

  Brenda

  ... (brummie dots) ...
• 

  FairMind

  Yes, I believe that the “composite” sign given by Jesus in Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13 are events that signal when mankind would be in the last days and when Jesus would return. One of the things Jesus said was that “if those days were not cut short, no flesh would be spared”. My take on this statement from day one was that mankind would wipe itself off the face of the earth if God did not intervene. Of course the WTS says this applies to God’s concern for the anointed and not mankind in general.

  The time we are now living in is dangerous without precedent for example consider the information presented at following link; http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/.

  Consider all of the concern with nuclear proliferation and the potential of biological warfare. Think about damage done in the last 50 years to our environment and what the short-term future holds there. While terrible disasters and pestilences have always occurred, prior to our day, mankind did not then have it within his power to bring about his own swift and total annihilation.

  My thoughts are that the criticisms levied toward the WTS and religion in general are justified. However, abandoning faith in God, discounting his warnings and criticizing the Bible might just be a dangerous road to travel.

  FM
• 

  roybatty

  As usual, they made a bogus doctrine out of little bits of facts. Don't make the same mistake.

  Name just about any disaster in human history and you'll find SOME group claiming to have predicted it. Fear is a strong emotion that cult leaders have learned to use to their advantage. Look at all the doubting JWs who posted here and then when 9/11 happened, *POOF* they scurried back to the kingdom halls out of fear.
• 

  chappy

  The 144,000 and everyone else will exist here on earth in human bodies that are resurrected or changed at this time into immortal ones like the one Christ had when He left.

  Joseph, that's sure gonna be a lot of people on this planet, no? What about the myriad of other "worlds" in the universe? Why couldn't some of the changed and resurrected exist on some of those worlds? Jesus said in my fathers house there are many mansions.

  As for the composite sign there are differences in the world situation today as opposed to past historical calamities. This is due to the huge increase in population as well as technological advances. Humans now have the ability, own their own, to destroy the world. The spread of civilization into previously untouched areas like the rain forest have awoken many deadly and contagious pathogens that are being diseminated world wide via the ease and speed of travel. If you include these things with the possibility of catostrophic collisions with asteroids and comets (we're "due" for a major hit give or take a few thousand years), the eruption of "super volcanoes", (we're also due + or - a few thousand years) then the likelyhood of extection size events are greater now than at any time in history.

  I'm not implying that we all should be preaching and screaming doom and gloom, but it can't hurt to keep our eyes, ears and mind open.

  chappy
• 

  justhuman

  END OF STORY
• 

  JosephMalik

  Joseph, that's sure gonna be a lot of people on this planet, no? What about the myriad of other "worlds" in the universe? Why couldn't some of the changed and resurrected exist on some of those worlds? Jesus said in my fathers house there are many mansions.
  

  Chappy,

  Yes there will and this is the very point of it all. The idea always was that after all the smoke clears and the final test is completed the end result will be a fulfillment of the original command given to Adam and Eve. This will complete the seventh day which will end successfully.

  If you pay attention to our Lords words as recorded in Matt. 25 you will see that not everyone will be restored to life in this Kingdom. Goats will not be a part of it so the population will not be outrageous. And some of the sheep will not make it past the final test either. So the end result will be as intended from the beginning.

  As to your interpretation of Joh 14:2 In my Father?s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. Why are you applying it to other planets? This statement made right after and on the night of the last Passover came after the apostles argued ad nauseam as to which one of them would be the greatest. It is about position and authority in this Kingdom not about a literal place to live. In other words it is about what was later to be called the 144,000 and their place in this future government over this earth. Somehow we forget that after all this the apostles still said just before our Lord left this earth: Acts 1:6 . . . Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? This is what was on their minds as they wanted to know when they would obtain a place in such a Kingdom here on earth.

  What about the other planets? Well that has been left for later. The scriptural record is not finished. More information will be made available to us after the final test is completed. But regarding mankind the redemption of the human race is just that. There was never a plan to take some humans and convert them to a nature that is not human. After all such non-humans already exist in abundance.

  Joseph
  http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/