What does the elder manual say the procedure is? (page 2)

XBEHERE

I don't have a elder's manual, but I have seen the BOE letters. The current policy is that if there is an accusation they are told to call the society right away. The society finds out what state they are in. If the state requires reporting, them tell them to notify the authorities. If the state does not require reporting, then they tell them to ask the accused if it is true. If they deny it, then they drop the whole thing unless a second accusation comes forward. This is exactly correct. This is what we were told repeatedly at CO visits as well as KM school in 2002, all verbally so that it is, in fact, untraceable as mentioned. The Branch office has been very specific in what it has printed regarding child abuse since it has been exposed a couple years ago. Bottom line is, if there are not 2 witnesses ,2 who witnessed the abuse or alternatively 2 different persons who report being abused, it really isnt acted on. All legality aside... we are speaking about innocent, young children here. Child abuse is heinous and disgusting and they are indefferent to it. It is simply amazing how they can react like this with something so terrible.

OldSoul

My dad was a PO for a long time and he often had papers that the instructions said to destroy completely, so he burned them... secret society? Nah! That's silly! Where would anyone get that idea?

This message will self-destruct...

heathen

The way I see the bible rule on this is that an older man should not be reproved or removed unless there are 2 witnesses but that doesn't go for everybody . The only thing the christian church was obligated to do was to reprove , remove and shun , there is no mention of contacting secular authority for legal action. The belief was that by removing them they would be turned over to the devil since they were no longer one of Gods children . There was always room to forgive repentant ones and try to turn them back to the right path. IMO

Voyager

Pay Attention To Yourselves And To All The Flock. Down at the bottom of this (Watchtower Observer) thread. If link doesn't work, then cut and paste it into browser. Look UNDER 118 (below). If you go over to Kent's sight, look under book sections 5A--5B

http://watchtower.observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040321/SECRETBOOKS/308010006

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Before Forming a Judicial Committee

A person who becomes a witness to a serious sin should
encourage the wrongdoer to report the matter to the elders.

He may encourage the wrongdoer to seek help from the
elders and confess; and if the wrongdoer does not do
so, the witness will then inform the elders. (w85 11/85 pp. 19-21)

If there is no response from the accused, two elders
should attempt to discuss the matter with him. If he
denies wrongdoing, so that it is only one brother's
word against another's, leave the matter in Jehovah's
hands. (1 Tim. 5:19, 24, 25)

However, having the witness confront the accused alone
may not be advisable in all cases.

For example:

When the witness is party to wrongdoing, such as
in cases of fornication or adultery.

118 ********************************************************************************************************

When the witness is a victim of the wrongdoer as in
cases of incest or rape.

When the witness is extremely timid.

In such cases, or when other extenuating circumstances
exist, two elders may discuss the matter with the ac-
cused, or an elder may accompany the witness to dis-
cuss the matter with the accused.

Of course, if it is determined that a judicial committee
should be formed, the witness may need to testify at
the hearing if the accused denies wrongdoing.

If there is another witness to the same type of sin on the
part of the accused, this would be basis for forming a
judicial committee. (See Unit 5 (b), page 111.)

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Judicial Committee Hearing Procedure

After opening with prayer, the chairman states the rea-
son for the meeting.

He may offer a Scriptural point at the outset, such as from
Proverbs 28:13 or James 5:14, 15.

Elders, by expressing the desire to be helpful, can do
much to put the accused at ease. (w89 9/15 pp. 19-20)

The chairman invites the accused to make a personal
statement.

FairMind

Heathen is correct with regard to the scriptural position. We need to keep in mind also that the Bible requires Christians to obey the laws of the land as long as they don't conflict with the Bible. I think this would mean that where the law requires you to report a crime if you have knowledge of it then you must do that. JW elders and the WTS seem to ignore Caesar's law in this regard.

FM

jst2laws

As AlanF said, there is little in the PATF ("Paying Attention to the Flock" - elder's manual) about child molestation and how to handle it. As Blondie said, we were drilled often: 'Any report of child molestation Call the Society immediately'. Then you do exactly as you are told by the "legal department".

I have done this. I have to say that the WT representatives I dealt with regarding molestation in both the service dept and the legal department seemed concerned about the victims and doing the right thing. Did their personal concern translate to a realistic approach to the problem. NO.

1 The last case I dealt with I was in a 'reporting' state but the legal department did not tell me this (which means I may have broken the law). Nor was the issue of the elders or the victim or their parents going to the authorities addressed by "Service" nor by "legal".

2 Not one comment was made by "Service" nor "Legal" regarding how to support the victim or the need of professional counseling. The entire context of the discussion and investigation was about establishing the facts (by multiple witnesses or a confession) and how to proceed if guilt is established. The victim's needs were NEVER DISCUSSED.

But I Did OBEY, and called the WT as soon as I became aware of child molestation, which is the FIRST step according to their rules. I may be mistaken, but I think they put this in a "Body of Elders" letter in the mid 90's. My obeying helped no one. None of the accused suffered congregations sanctions nor were the authorities involved. None of the claimed victims recieved professional evaluation or counseling. The Watchtower individuals I dealt with were truly concerned, and involved. But THEIR faith too was in a system that does not work.

Jst2laws

OldSoul

Steve,

Were you ever instructed to destroy records or letters? I have a difficult time picturing you complying with that one.

Respectfully,
Old Soul

P.S. Tell Joyzabel and kids "Happy Holidays" and maybe we'll be able to get together again soon... there is six inches of snow on the ground right now, and more falling! Talk about a Honky Christmas!

Big Tex

I remember in the early 90s (1992?) Nina's father showed me a BOE that instructed elders to contact the Society before they made any attempt to contact the police or anyone else for that matter (oh what I wouldn't give to have that letter now!).

heathen

Fairmind -- my comment was about the general idea on dealing with the unrighteous acts of church members . The child molestation issue of course is one of them . I'm sure the WTBTS would comply so as not leave themselves open to lawsuit but the bible does not suggest any such thing as reporting these things to the secular authorities . The worlds governments are still considered to be under satanic direction and to say that they can met out justice and God cannot is blaspheme .

Quotes

Here is a direct quote from a Feb 15, 2002 letter to all Bodies of Elders (page 4):

(download the entire 8 page PDF file scan of this letter to elders: http://quotes.watchtower.ca/scans/2002_Feb_15_BodyOfElders.pdf

(emphasis added by me)
===============================
Reminders Regarding the Handling of Cases Involving Child Abuse: (1) As directed in the July 1, 1989, letter to all bodies of elders, you should immediately call the Legal Department for direction if you learn of a case of child abuse. Child abuse would include sexual abuse, self-evident physical abuse, and extreme neglect involving a minor. (2) If the alleged victim is now an adult but was a minor at the time of the abuse, please call the Legal Department. (3) If you become aware of a past case of child abuse and you are not certain whether the elders involved at the time called the Legal Department for direction, please call the Legal Department for assistance as soon as possible. (4) Child abuse is a crime. Never suggest to anyone that they should not report an allegation of child abuse to the police or other authorities. If you are asked, make it clear that whether to report the matter to the authorities or not is a personal decision for each individual to make and that there are no congregation sanctions for either decision. That is, no elder will criticize anyone who reports such and allegation to the authorities.
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Note they NEVER ONCE said to report; the strongest they said is to "never tell anyone they should not report". Which means (a) there was a problem with this if they had to tell elders, and (b) that is shockingly inadequate. WT just doesn't "get" it.

The above quote is available 24/7 at http://quotes.watchtower.ca/elders.htm

~Quotes, of the "Pack Rat" class

What does the elder manual say the procedure is?

Before Forming a Judicial Committee

Judicial Committee Hearing Procedure

After opening with prayer, the chairman states the rea-son for the meeting.

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After opening with prayer, the chairman states the rea-
son for the meeting.