Belief in God is our intrinsic and permanent nature, shows new findings!

by abiather 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • abiather
    abiather

    There are many theories about the origin of belief in God, such as (1) Ancient illiterate people feared forces of nature, which were then personified as gods and worshipped for protection. (2) Invention of agriculture and food surplus led to a new way of life, which included culture and religion.

    Yet such views are strongly being challenged today by various developments in our times. Huge temples were discovered reportedly thousands of years older than agriculture. This take on civilization’s true dawn suggests that culture arose from spiritual hunger (not full bellies), declares David Robson inNew Scientist. (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22029370.700-hunter-gatherer-architect-civilisations-true-dawn.html) Why would supposedly starving hunter-artists waste their lives decorating caves with magnificent paintings which give insight into (among other things) his religious beliefs of that time? Interestingly, those hunters were more humane than many of modern humans (who thrive primarily on arms-industry) as they at least felt the guilt of slaughter, which they tried to expiate through rites and art. Modern humans brought many isms (socialism, communism, capitalism and consumerism …..) which also gave them depression, suicides, widening disparity, conflicts that kill primarily the innocents …! No wonder millions from the developed countries (most of them highly educated ones) flock to the East in search of spiritual solace, disproving the theory that belief in God arose out of fear of forces of nature!

     That means humans—whether in poverty or in material abundance—would seek spirituality, our inherent nature. Just like water has TEMPORARY nature [becoming vapor when heated above 100 degree] and PERMANENT nature [liquidity], humans too have temporary nature [materialistic, atheistic or agnostic] and permanent nature [seeking God, their source, and being in tune with Him]! Until humans revert to their permanent nature, they cannot be in peace and contentment! What is temporary can give only temporary happiness! Yet man is not happy with temporary happiness that comes from Materialism, Atheism, and Agnosticism! Once experienced what those isms provide, adherents are forced to look for something better, thus actually become a means to spirituality [as shown by people who reached the zenith of material prosperity like Buddha, Bill Gates …….]

    It is true that some worship God by superstition, some by instinct/tradition, and it is also true that many acknowledge some sort of relationship with the Divine on account of REASON—a fact that is often forgotten by atheists! Interestingly, Mahatma Gandhi had this to say: “God is even the atheism of the atheist, for in His bountless love God permits the atheists to live. Even to those who hesitate to accept His existence, He says: ‘So be it, my sun will shine no less for you; my clouds will rain no less for you.’ The very existence of atheists is thus the proof of the greatness of God!” Also, atheists are freely taught a lesson by God: ‘Conquer the opponent with love. The more you do this, the more you feel delight in life!’

  • cofty
    cofty
    many acknowledge some sort of relationship with the Divine on account of REASON

    Reason is anathema to your superstitions.

    man is not happy with temporary happiness that comes from Materialism, Atheism, and Agnosticism!

    This is just gibberish.

  • cofty
    cofty

    You don't get to hijack human quest for beauty and art and creativity and conflate it with your religious superstitions.

    I have contempt for theism and yet I love music and art and literature.

    You are making a category error.

    Your constant straw-man attacks on enlightened western society and your veneration of eastern woo-woo is becoming tedious.

  • Jonathan Drake
    Jonathan Drake

    I don't believe belief in God is part of nature in this way. I couldn't disagree with this more.

    to suggest that mankind is born with intrinsic traits that determine theology or sexual orientation or whatever else that's been suggested is to suggest fate is real. It would mean people are predestined by their genetics. The catch 22 now is that the bible doesn't support fate or predestination in this way. Therefore, a person cannot suggest such notions while believing the bible. 

    I would really hate if this was proven somehow. It suggests that rather than being born a blank slate that grows into something individually beautiful, we are at the mercy of our DNA. That would be horribly disappointing.

  • cofty
    cofty

    JD - I am wondering what part of the OP you are responding to?

    In any case your topic is more interesting than Aba's.

    It is beyond doubt that our personality, sexual orientation and even our religiosity is strongly influenced by our genes. That is not the same thing as fate. We are not entirely slaves of our genes.

  • Jonathan Drake
    Jonathan Drake

    JD - I am wondering what part of the OP you are responding to?

    In any case your topic is more interesting than Aba's.

    It is beyond doubt that our personality, sexual orientation and even our religiosity is strongly influenced by our genes. That is not the same thing as fate. We are not entirely slaves of our genes.


    I was responding to the idea that believing in God is inherent in our nature. I really don't believe that at all. I could concede it's normal to wonder how we got here, but I would challenge that studies in science specifically aimed at explaining this without God show its more about finding an answer to this - not about necessarily assuming it's God. Does that make sense?

    Along with this, any familiar with Jesus deeds as they are recorded will remember that he wanted people to have faith of their own free will. I would challenge that putting into humans this intrinsic search would be like cheating. The bible says that those conscious of their spiritual need would be happy because it would be filled, therefore not everyone is conscious of it. 

    As far as how genes may influence us, I still would not be thrilled to know they influence us at all. I'd rather be completely free to make choices, not make choices that have been influenced. I.e., if I were a devout catholic, I'd feel kind of violated if I were to find out nature manipulated me to make that choice. If nurture influenced me that wouldn't bother me as much, since as an adult I'd be free of that influence. But genes would always be influencing me - I'd never be free, how could I trust my choices to be really me? Know what I mean?



  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    Abiathar, I believe that mankind, at least our species Homo Sapiens, had a propensity for spirituality. paleo-anthropologists interpret prehistoric cave paintings as having a religious/ritualistic component - we worshipped what we ate. This however has nothing to do with an anthropomorphic 'god' that you mentioned. You could have spirituality and other beliefs such as animism and ancestor worship without a personal god.

     "What is temporary can give only temporary happiness!"

    We can be happy throughout our entire lifespan of three score and ten years. That would be temporary but fulfilling. No god needs to be involved.

    "That means humans—whether in poverty or in material abundance—would seek spirituality, our inherent nature." 

    And you assume that it has to be a theistic spirituality that is tied in to belief in god/s. As far as poverty and riches are concerned it is well known by sociologists that poverty stricken areas tend to be more religious - religions that emphasize an afterlife of rewards. Two examples are, the deep south, (the 'Bible Belt') in the United States and ghetto areas. While well off people may be religious/spiritual impoverished people need some extra incentive in their miserable lives. Poverty breeds more religiosity than wealth.

    And somewhat off topic: 

    "Just like water has TEMPORARY nature [becoming vapor when heated above 100 degree] and PERMANENT nature [liquidity],"

    Water in all three forms can have a PERMANENT nature. Examples:

    • An ice planet, too far from its sun for its ice to melt.
    • A planet, too warm to freeze and without an ocean, with water vapor making up its entire atmosphere .
    • A water world where there is no freezing. 
  • cofty
    cofty
    As far as how genes may influence us, I still would not be thrilled to know they influence us at all. - JD

    JD - There are lots of studies showing the powerful influence of genes on our personalities and life choices.

    Here is one good example..

    Check out "Nature via Nurture" by Matt Ridley for an accessible introduction to the research.



  • abiather
    abiather

    Cofty,

    I wrote about this new findings just like you wrote about gene-connection of theists. Disagreement is natural between us as I am a former atheist and you are a former theist, and it is understandable. I am in no way making a comparison between the West and the East with regard to spirituality. I was just reproducing what is being observed, in total dispassion.

    Also, I am not against atheists. In fact, even those who are not sincere about their belief in God are also called “atheists.” (Hindu Scripture Shrimat Bhagavatam 12.3.32). 

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Even if this idea has something to it, there's no way that everybody feels this way.

    Know how I know?

    'Cause (in retrospect) it always took me effort to believe in God, even as a child. There definately wasn't anything intrinsic or instinctual about it.

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