Did anyone watch the latest Frontline? (page 3)

eljefe

This is a bit harder. The idea that the first were the students in 1980 in Iran is ludicrous.

That was the first direct attack against the US. Before it was Westerners in general. Terrorism in general has been around for a while.

In fact, they could be classed as terrorist insurgents because, as history documents, there were even incidents of terrible attrocities against British soldiers as well as civillian loyalists. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

To be honest, I really find your analogy of our country's independence egregious. Are these terrorists trying to form their own country from occupation. Keep in mind that the majority of Iraq's insurgency is being done by foreign fighters (Jordan, Syria, Iran, etc).

So, we bombed the crap out of Afghanistan to corner this dude...but then, when we nearly had him, Rummy tells our boys "Okay....now stand down...we're going to hire the "Northern Alliance" to go in and ge him....so that doesn't work. What do we do? Oh, what the hey...let's just invade Iraq

There was never any any evidence bin Laden was in Tora Bora. Even Gen. Tommy Franks (the commander at that time) said so.

So what to do? Well, teaching tolerance and providing steps to reduce poverty are always a good start. People who have their basics and some meaning to their lives tend to be much more peaceable.

Even if that were to happen, it would still take a long time to sink in.

SixofNine

:Keep in mind that the majority of Iraq's insurgency is being done by foreign fighters (Jordan, Syria, Iran, etc).

Oh please. There is simply no good reason to believe this. You say it as if if was fact, when in fact it's wishful thinking that's been debunked a thousand times over.

And yes, bin Laden is thought to have been at Tora Bora, Tommy Franks campaign tapdancing aside.

gumby

A news article:

Washington exaggerated the number of foreign fighters in Iraq to justify the recent assault on Falluja, an official Syrian daily has said.

A massive US-led assault on Falluja began 10 days ago with the alleged aim of wresting control of the city from foreign fighters.

The US says the men were led by Jordanian-born Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and other fighters opposed to the US presence in Iraq.

Washington has repeatedly accused Syria and Iran of allowing
foreign fighters to cross their borders with Iraq to join the Falluja resistance .

However, al-Thawra publication said on Thursday: "The question of foreign fighters crossing Iraqi [borders] has been

exaggerated, given that only 24 of the 1000 men captured in Falluja are foreign." Revised figures

Of the more than 1000 men aged between 15 and 55 who were captured in intense fighting in Falluja last week, just 15 are confirmed foreign fighters, ...blah, blah, blah

Gumby

CoonDawg

Are these terrorists trying to form their own country from occupation. Keep in mind that the majority of Iraq's insurgency is being done by foreign fighters (Jordan, Syria, Iran, etc).

From what reports are coming out of Iraq that I've been reading...not US mainstream, I might add...there are upwards of 200,000 insurgents in Iraq and these aren't even close to being a majority percentage foreign fighters. The insurgents are down and out Iraqis who are disgruntled with the way that their country has been ravaged. They are from all walks of life, led by former millitants from Saddam's army. They are surprisingly well coordinated in their methods as well as their intelligence. I ask myself, If I had a foreign army occupying my country and my city telling me that they have my best interests at heart, yet my most basic needs aren't being met and I'm not even given the opportunity to work at my own country's success until some arbitrarily set "election day"...well, I can't say that I'd sit idlely by and just let it happen. I don't think that many of us would. Sure, maybe I couldn't defeat their army in a traditional engagement...but I could sting them periodically and tie up troops that could be better used elsewhere...

There was never any any evidence bin Laden was in Tora Bora. Even Gen. Tommy Franks (the commander at that time) said so.

Oh come on...do you honestly think that we can pick a mustachioed and grizzled Saddam out of a spider hole in the middle of a desert the size of California as rapidly as we did, yet we can't seem to find one overgrown Saudi with a dialisis machine in tow? Even if he wasn't "cornered in Tora Bora" which many think was his route of escape...our leadership never really committed US forces to finishing the job of finding him. As was said in the run up to the election...he became Osama bin Forgotten. President Bush in his own words even admitted that he wasn't "that concerned about Bin Laden. I don't give him much thought." Pretty disturbing to me.

Even if that were to happen, it would still take a long time to sink in.

That may be true...but the problem took a long time to develop. It didn't happen overnight and the root causes won't be addressed overnight either. No one says it's a quick fix...but if we continue to repeat the same behaviors that have helped to engender this hatred, we only prolong it and provoke it anew.

JMO, of course...

Jeannie...

At what point do the Iraqi people have to step up and kick these radical murderers out of their country? At what point does it become the Iraqi people's issue to deal with? Aren?t we just there to stabilize things so that they can get the chance to deal with it themselves?

Yes, I agree that ultimately things will be up to the Iraqi people. You have to understand though that, as has been documented, contrary to propaganda from certain sectors, Iraq was never operationally linked to al-quieda and bin-Laden. In fact, bin laden has gotten his biggest dream fulfilled by our policies in Iraq, not the least of which was the deposing of Saddam who he refered to as "a bad muslim" and an "infidel" because Saddam was a secular ruler, not a devout and practicing muslim. At this point, our real motives for staying in iraq are up for debate. If we really had wanted to stabilize things in the region to begin with, we would have sent the number of troops we needed to provide security for the nation...also maybe we would have thought through some of our other policies that have done everything but "win hearts and minds". It's a far cry from being "greeted with flowers and candy as liberators" as some of the administration's war pigs tried to lead us to believe. What's the answer...well, there isn't any easy one. Our soldiers have performed their duties in an outstanding way, for the most part. I just want to see them home post haste. I thought it was interesting back in Gulf War one when Dick Cheney was asked about pushing to Bagdad then and what it would be worth spending to get Saddam then....his reply was "not one damned life more." Wow...the tune sure has changed.

In closing i'll say...I wish we'd never gone to iraq. Our country has blighted itself by ascribing to a doctrine of preemptive attacks. Now that we are there...let's support those men and women...in actions not just words or a bumper sticker....and let's bring 'em home.

Ern

eljefe

This thread is now are you a Democrat or Republican? Do you support Bush or not?

Can't we just be happy for the Iraqi's having their first democratic election in a very long time?

Back to the original question, did you watch the Frontline about al-Qaeda that is airing on PBS this week?

safe4kids

It'll be interesting to see what happens when they blow up the Eiffel Tower or The Lourve(sp).

Mega, I echo your "sheesh". Comments like this are ridiculous and incendiary.

Doesn't sound like worthwhile argument and it certainly shows little respect for the French posters here to say it'll be "interesting" to see the Louvre blown up just because they don't blindly follow Bush's highly controversial (to say the least) policy

Pole, I couldn't agree with you more. It seems that lately comments that are hurtful and directed at groups of people along national lines, so long as they are cloaked in "discussion" regarding current politics, have become acceptable. I don't much care for this trend and I thought your response to it an excellent one.

Sorry, eljefe, I didn't see the episode so can't comment on it.

Dana

jeanniebeanz

Eljefe,

The link that you initally posted is gone. Can you please re-post it?

J

eljefe

Here it is again. You can now view it online.

jeanniebeanz

Thanks!

upside/down

It'll be interesting to see what happens when they blow up the Eiffel Tower or The Lourve(sp).

Mega, I echo your "sheesh". Comments like this are ridiculous and incendiary.
Doesn't sound like worthwhile argument and it certainly shows little respect for the French posters here to say it'll be "interesting" to see the Louvre blown up just because they don't blindly follow Bush's highly controversial (to say the least) policy

Are you nuts- do you work for CNN or CBS? You take my comment WAY out of context and "SPIN" it where I never intended. I have NEVER advocated "blindly following Bush" EVER!

Rediculous and incindieary? It was merely a hypothetical that MAY HAPPEN. I'm not wishing it happen- get a f'n life and take that chip off your obviously "democratic biased" shoulder.

Little respect for the "French posters"- I don't think so! Again, pull your head out!

Don't paint me and don't put words or thoughts in my mouth. My reasonings are merely an opinion and are not "politically" motivated or to support any "party"- I feel politicians are "whores" ALL OF 'EM! I merely tried to state realities and how best to deal with the sitch at hand and still behave as good citizens within the framework and laws of this land- that's all.

u/d (of the I don't care how bad it gets I won't burn the flag class)

Did anyone watch the latest Frontline?

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