jehovah's organization and dual fulfillment prophecy

by jaredg 34 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Raphael

  To Elders and Pastors first...a weighty responsibility

  ACTS 20:28

  Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

  Then to each individual member in the church the responsibility to feed one another:

  1 PETER 4:10

  As every man hath received the gift, [even so] minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

  The Holy Spirit gives each member in the congregation different gifts as he sees fit, to be used in communal upbuilding and spiritual feeding of the entire body of believers:

  1 Cor 12:7-11

  To one person the Spirit gives the ability to give wise advice; to another he gives the gift of special knowledge. 9 The Spirit gives special faith to another, and to someone else he gives the power to heal the sick. 10 He gives one person the power to perform miracles, and to another the ability to prophesy. He gives someone else the ability to know whether it is really the Spirit of God or another spirit that is speaking. Still another person is given the ability to speak in unknown languages,* and another is given the ability to interpret what is being said. 11 It is the one and only Holy Spirit who distributes these gifts. He alone decides which gift each person should have.

  Verse 12 12 The human body has many parts, but the many parts make up only one body. So it is with the body of Christ. 13 Some of us are Jews, some are Gentiles, some are slaves, and some are free. But we have all been baptized into Christ's body by one Spirit, and we have all received the same Spirit.*

  Hope the above scriptures will speak to your dads heart.
• 

  Brownboy

  9 And there came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls which were full of the seven last plagues, and he spoke with me and said: "Come here, I will show you the bride, the Lamb?s wife." 10 So he carried me away in [the power of the] spirit to a great and lofty mountain, and he showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God 11 and having the glory of God. Its radiance was like a most precious stone, as a jasper stone shining crystal-clear. 12 It had a great and lofty wall and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names were inscribed which are those of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel. 13 On the east were three gates, and on the north three gates, and on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. 14 The wall of the city also had twelve foundation stones, and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

  15

  Now the one who was speaking with me was holding as a measure a golden reed, that he might measure the city and its gates and its wall. 16 And the city lies foursquare, and its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs; its length and breadth and height are equal. 17 Also, he measured its wall, one hundred and forty-four cubits, according to a man?s measure, at the same time an angel?s. 18 Now the structure of its wall was jasper, and the city was pure gold like clear glass. 19 The foundations of the city?s wall were adorned with every sort of precious stone: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chal·ced´o·ny, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sar´do·nyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrys´o·lite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrys´o·prase, the eleventh hyacinth, the twelfth amethyst. 21 Also, the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was made of one pearl. And the broad way of the city was pure gold, as transparent glass.

  45

  "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings.

  ---

  How many of each does it describe here in these scriptures?

  Is it possible that there are only twelve (apostles) that reside in the heavenly portion of the Kingdom as spirit entities?

  Is it possible that there are only 144, for the 1000 year reign of Christ?

  There is only one (1) faithful and discreet slave according the the book of Matthew

  Read for yourself the 21st chapter of Revelations, and show me where there are 144000 humans that reside in the heavens, or that will reside in the heavens with Christ. These final chapters describe it for you.

  The faithful and discreet slave of the Most High God Jehovah, and of His Christ

  www.thelastgeneration.org
• 

  M.J.

  Thanks for the insight Leo,

  You made a good point that one of the distinguishing characteristics of the slave is that he is "like men waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him".

  The fact of the matter is that when the Master supposedly "returned" in 1914, the only so-called Christian group on earth that wasn't "waiting to open the door" to him was the Bible Students. This is because the Bible Students believed at that time that Jesus was already present and had been since 1874 (hence the name, "The Watchtower and Herald of Christ's Presence"). Furthermore, they considered Russell to be the "Faithful and Wise Servant". So how could the Bible Students have been the slave if they were not waiting for Jesus, did not welcome him and acknowledge his coming, and furthermore did not even consider themselves to be the slave when he did come?
• 

  TD

  Good observation:

  So how could the Bible Students have been the slave if they were not waiting for Jesus, did not welcome him and acknowledge his coming, and furthermore did not even consider themselves to be the slave when he did come?

  ...And despite all that, they were, according to the Witnesses judged to be faithful and appointed over all the masters belongings in 1919

  --Only they weren't aware of this either!
• 

  M.J.

  Thanks. But I can't take credit for that one. It's an observation made by Don Cameron in Captives of a Concept. Great book.
• 

  a Christian

  Jaredg,

  The men who run the Watchtower Society tell us that Jesus Christ appointed them over all his belongings, spiritually speaking, in the year 1919. As you know, they point to Christ's parable of "the faithful and discreet slave" found in Matthew 24:45-47 to support this teaching.

  I suggest you ask your Dad a few simple questions. Questions such as these: How did the men who ran the Watchtower Society in 1919 find out that Christ had made this appointment? Did Christ tell the men who ran the Society in 1919 that he had done so, while appearing to them in a dream or vision? Did he send an angel to deliver this news to them? If he did not, how did they find out that Christ had appointed them to be his "Faithful and Discreet Slave" and thereafter act as his sole channel for distributing Bible truth on the earth? If Christ did not actually tell them, in some unmistakable way, that he had made such an appointment, then how has anyone ever really known that Christ actually ever really did such a thing?

  Jehovah's Witnesses usually answer such questions by saying something like this: "His appointment is obvious. After all, Jehovah's Witnesses understand the Bible far better than any other so-called Christian denomination. And no one else but us is preaching 'the good news of the kingdom' worldwide. And no other group has love among themselves like we do. So, we must be God's organization!"

  However, even if all these things were true, would it really prove that Jesus Christ ever made such an appointment? After all, every Christian sect believes their group has the most truth, that their denomination is the one most approved by Jesus Christ, and that the leaders of their group are the most "faithful and discreet" slaves of Christ in all the earth.

  If Jesus himself never actually told the men who ran the Watchtower Society in 1919 that he was then judging them to be "faithful", and that he was then appointing them "over all his belongings", was it right for them to tell the whole world that Christ himself had then done those things? Since Jesus Christ himself never made such an announcement to the men who ran the Watchtower Society in 1919, they had no way of then knowing for sure that Christ ever really made such an appointment. And, neither do the men who run the Watchtower Society today. And neither do any of Jehovah's Witnesses today.

  The parable of the faithful and discreet slave informs us that when Christ returns he himself will judge which of his servants have faithfully taken good care of all he entrusted to them. With this in mind, is it the place of Christ's slaves to proclaim themselves to be faithful? No, it is not. Christ said he will judge his slaves. For a slave to judge himself as faithful and then tell all the world that Christ himself made that judgment is a very proud and presumptuous thing to do. And God assures us in His Word that, "I shall actually cause the pride of the presumptuous ones to cease." (Isaiah 13:11)
• 

  garybuss

  
  
  Arguing with a Witness about who is appointed as that slave is like debating about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It's a waste of time.
  
  If Witness people are nice to me, I try to keep rapport and I stay away from issues that may threaten the rapport. If Witness people are not nice to me, I shun them.
• 

  Poztate

  I predict that an eagle will pluck a "BUSH" from the ground and this eagle will drop it back to the earth after four years. This BUSH will drop a seed and another BUSH will grow. Eight years later the eagle will pluck the second BUSH from the ground and hold onto it for eight years.

  OH My God...I can see the light.WE really are in the time of the end...Repent...Repent... etc

  PS Does the eagle have a good "shit" on the second bush so that what ever comes up in it's place will be well fertilized.
• 

  Poztate

  Jehovah's Witnesses usually answer such questions by saying something like this: "His appointment is obvious.

  They love to use the word "apparently" in all instances where they are blowing it out their ass and have NO idea as to what is really happening.Happens a LOT
• 

  Honesty

  ---

  Jehovah's Witnesses usually answer such questions by saying something like this: "His appointment is obvious. After all, Jehovah's Witnesses understand the Bible far better than any other so-called Christian denomination. And no one else but us is preaching 'the good news of the kingdom' worldwide. And no other group has love among themselves like we do. So, we must be God's organization!"

  ---

  I beg to differ with all of the above for the following reasons:
  

  Evidently they don't understand Deuteronomy 18:22 or they would leave the WTBTS

  They claim to be preaching and placing literature in 200+ lands. However, when I was in Jamaica in 1993 and went to KH for the TMS and Service Meeting they were using the preceding month's KM and all but one of the attendees had a photostatic copy. They had a fit when they saw the new one I had. I felt so bad for them I almost cried. Also, the phrase Jesus used when he said the Good News would be preached to all the nations was ta ethne which literally means ethnolinguistic groups and not geo-political groups. There are approximately 11,000 ethnolinguistic groups on earth today. The WTBTS spent $63 million on missionaries in 1999. The Southern Baptist Convention alone spent over $136 the same year and that's not counting the other religions of Christendom. Do a little research and you will find that all of them preach the same message about the Kingdom - Jesus Christ as saviour. The WTBTS Good News is preaching a different gospel of Christ than anyone else.

  Love among themselves - Just let them know you have been on the internet looking at JW sites and see just how much love you're going to receive or, ask them a question they can't answer like "Why did the WTBTS affiliate themselves with the UN as an NGO for almost 10 years without telling anyone until the story came out in a British newspaper. Let's see... probably take about 2 days to call a JC on you for creating dissension among the faithful if you tell anyone else in the congregation about it.

  Have a lovely time recording your FS while true christians know that God is the one who records our activities. When are you dubs gonna wake up from the trance you're in?