Jehovah's witnesses cooperative

by Polemotheos 27 Replies latest jw friends

  • Polemotheos
    Polemotheos

    Dear brothers and sisters, servants of God, Jehovah's witnesses, Ex-JW's, opposers, apostates, and athiests.

    Jehovah's witnesses need your help. I would like to thank you for all the work you have done so far. We need as many critics as we can get. We as Jehovah's witnesses extend our thanks and would like you to continue your efforts and even encourage you to examine us even closer.

    We need to understand all the problems that we are faced with by corporate religion. Not repeating symptoms like some partisian hack. But rather seeking to define the 'real' or root problem which causes the others.

    I am on a journey to understand and define the most fundamental and root cause problems of the watchtower corporate religion. The real problems that causes all the other symptoms. I have faith that the problems we face are not insurmountable. Indeed I have hope that we can define a faith for Jehovah's witnesses like a constitution or charter. Open source, accountable, everything you could dream of. And that is it; your dreams are needed!

    But before a solution can be found the problem must be understood and defined. Defining the problem is the first and often times the most difficult process to the solution.

    To first define what we have;
    corporation: A body that is granted a charter recognizing it as a separate legal entity having its own rights, privileges, and liabilities distinct from those of its members.

    This would intrestingly be the very definition of an elite clergy class. Those of the laity (average Jehovah's witness) have no say. There are verious legal doctrines like; members are not allowed to question the decisions of the 'body' or society and another would be justified lying.

    The definition goes on to say;
    An invisible, intangible, artificial creation of the law existing as a voluntary chartered association of individuals that has most of the rights and duties of natural persons but with perpetual existence and limited liability.

    I believe that corpratized religion is not what Jehovah intended.

    Romans 8:28 "Now we know that God makes all his works cooperate together for the good of those who love God, those who are the ones called according to his purpose;"

    Ephesians 4:16 "From him all the body, by being harmoniously joined together and being made to cooperate through every joint that gives what is needed, according to the functioning of each respective member in due measure, makes for the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love."

    The spirit of God's word ecouraging us all to cooperate. Defining our organization with the words of co-operation will bring the blessings Jehovah has intended for us.

    Here is a try at it; (needs lots of work and co-operation

    Definition
    The Jehovah's witness co-operative is an autonomous association of Jehovah's witnesses united voluntarily to meet their common spiritual, social, technical and ministry needs and aspirations through a jointly-owned and democratically-controlled enterprise.

    Values
    The JW co-operative is based on the values of self-help, self-responsibility, democracy, equality, equity and solidarity. In the tradition of their founder (Jesus Christ), JW co-operative members believe in the ethical values of honesty, openness, social responsibility and caring for others.

    Principles
    The principles are guidelines by which the JW co-operative puts it's values into practice.

    1st Principle: Voluntary and Open Jehovah's Witness Membership
    The JW co-operative is a voluntary organisation, open to all Jehovah's witnesses able to use their services and willing to accept the responsibilities of membership, without gender, social, and racial discrimination.

    Here is were I think we will have to define a 'Jehovah's witness.'

    1. There is a creator, who has the holy and beautiful name (יהוה) Jehovah.
    2. Jehovah's first creation was the arch angel, the word of God, Jesus Christ.
    3. Jehovah and Jesus are different beings, persons with separate and distinct will.
    4. The holy spirit is not a person and is not the power of God.
    5. The bible is inspired of God and is the utlimate authority for establishing doctrine.

    (Can you think of the fundimental beliefs that We Jehovah's witnesses have. The goal is to find the beliefs that unite us but to keep it basic enough for real deliberation of core doctrine to be established through co-operative consensus.)

    2nd Principle: Democratic Member Control
    The JW co-operative is a democratic organisation controlled by it's members, who actively participate in setting their policies and making decisions. Men and women serving as elected representatives are accountable to the membership. (Accountablity now that is a novelty!)

    In primary co-operatives members have equal voting rights (one member, one vote) and co-operatives at other levels are also organised in a democratic manner.

    There is a lot to be considered on how we can do this. I am hoping you will help me visualize all the possiblities so then we can chose the best process to use. For example can women serve as elected representatives? Does it matter? Maybe it depends on the particular duty. I am sure this could be an intresting discussion.

    3rd Principle: Member Capital Participation
    Members contribute equitably to, and democratically control, the capital of their co-operative. Members allocate surpluses for any or all of the following purposes: developing their co-operative, possibly by setting up reserves, and supporting other activities approved by the membership.

    4th Principle: Autonomy and Independence
    The JW co-operative is autonomous, a religious organisation controlled by it's members. If it enters into agreements with other organisations, including governments, or raise capital from external sources, they do so on terms that ensure democratic control by it's members and maintain their co-operative autonomy. (note; this would have prevented the UN scandal)

    5th Principle: Education, Training and Information
    The JW co-operative provides education and training for it's members, elected representatives and managers so they can contribute effectively to the development of the JW cooperative.
    They inform the general public about the nature and benefits of JW co-operation and God's will.

    peace, love and thanks for your help,
    Mars

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    HUH?!

    Josie

  • Mary
    Mary
    4th Principle: Autonomy and Independence The JW co-operative is autonomous, a religious organisation controlled by it's members. If it enters into agreements with other organisations, including governments, or raise capital from external sources, they do so on terms that ensure democratic control by it's members and maintain their co-operative autonomy.

    There's a better chance of pigs flying out of Queen Elizabeth's arse than anything "democratic" happening inside the WTB&TS.

  • ezekiel3
    ezekiel3

    An autonomous collective? What about the violence inherent in the system!? (Sorry a little Monty there for you)

    Listen, your ideas are profound, but why revamp JWs? I mean, find some scriptures to match and you've got your own religion.

    The WTBTS is a profit center fueled on the fumes of suspended disbelief. This is reality.

  • ezekiel3
    ezekiel3

    Sorry, just read your profile, it sounds like that's exactly what you are doing.

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    Hello brother Turner.

    Isn't it you who preach of God's omnipresence?

    You just now refer to God as a "different being, person with separate and distinct will." It seems you have monumentally shrunk and reduced God from being omnipresent and without beginning and end, down to an object, or thing separate and apart from all else.

    Your "root problem" (which you have ask to be revealed) seems to be the common religious habit and propensity to grossly belittling God to an own-able commodity.

    If one sincerely desires to realize the Divine, it helps to be able to distinguish the difference between mental and conceptual interpretations (every word ever written or spoken or believed), to the indefinable actuality and reality of the aliveness of this moment. For it would seem, that there is no better place to look for truth (God), than in what is real, actual and true already.

    Sadly, many are so filled with love for their Bibles and beliefs of a god, they have no room left for the present actuality of God.


    j

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist
    Definition
    The Jehovah's witness co-operative is an autonomous association of Jehovah's witnesses united voluntarily to meet their common spiritual, social, technical and ministry needs and aspirations through a jointly-owned and democratically-controlled enterprise.

    Dude, if the elders see you've posted this, you're going to get "invited" to a judicial committee hearing. (For apostasy)

    No need to reform the Watchtower, just leave. Just take JT's advice, leave the corporate organization, and find God for yourself. Plenty have found him, and you can too. No need to try to haul 25 Columbia Heights with you.

    There's a life here with your name on it. Grab it up while you can.

    Dave

  • Polemotheos
    Polemotheos
    Hello brother Turner. Isn't it you who preach of God's omnipresence? You just now refer to God as a "different being, person with separate and distinct will." It seems you have monumentally shrunk and reduced God from being omnipresent and without beginning and end, down to an object, or thing separate and apart from all else.

    James,

    Are you saying if Jehovah is omnipresent then no one has a separate and distinct free will? Surly you would not say that. Because for a fact we have the choice to spiritually connect with Jehovah or not. What else do you call this besides free will? We have the free will to be vile and wicked or righteous and pure. Now if all creatures including Jesus have a free will to do according to Jehovah's will or not does that not also indication Jehovah's will is separate and distinct from everyone else? Something that must be chosen for each of us to follow or not. This is the definition of person. A person has a personality and distinct will.

    Your "root problem" (which you have ask to be revealed) seems to be the common religious habit and propensity to grossly belittling God to an own-able commodity.
    Thank you for pointing this out. This is not the intention of being united in worship. Jesus said go therefore and make desciples teaching them.... So one of the important reasons to unite is to make a conserted effort to spread the good news. I personally thank all people for doing such. I understand where you get the "God being an own-able commodity" from the WTS. How do you suggest we prevent ourselves from such moral arrogance?
    If one sincerely desires to realize the Divine, it helps to be able to distinguish the difference between mental and conceptual interpretations (every word ever written or spoken or believed), to the indefinable actuality and reality of the aliveness of this moment. For it would seem, that there is no better place to look for truth (God), than in what is real, actual and true already.
    This is a deep thought.

    Sadly, many are so filled with love for their Bibles and beliefs of a god, they have no room left for the present actuality of God.
    I do find so much wisdom from the bible. I also take great comfort from the reality of a wise creator that cares for us and wants only the best and for us to be happy. This "present actuality of God" must be articulated. Surely no one knows something unless they are taught.
  • Polemotheos
    Polemotheos
    Dude, if the elders see you've posted this, you're going to get "invited" to a judicial committee hearing. (For apostasy)

    No need to reform the Watchtower, just leave. Just take JT's advice, leave the corporate organization, and find God for yourself. Plenty have found him, and you can too. No need to try to haul 25 Columbia Heights with you.

    There's a life here with your name on it. Grab it up while you can.

    Dave

    Dave,

    I am not affiliated with the watchtower corporation. Here is a thread that demonstrates the ending of that love affair. http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/viewtopic.php?t=1169

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist

    Ah, I see you've already been DF'd. For slander? Based on your web site? What did they find slanderous in it?

    If I admited to commiting fornication secretly for ten years there would be a judicial investigation. Even if I used the excuse of fornicating with the libruarian to get a libruary card.

    So the watchtower has admited to commiting fornication with the UN secretly for ten years and yet there is no judicial investigation

    That was a beautiful quote!

    You are welcome to pursue whatever you wish, of course, and more power to you. But you can see what happens when some honest people get together and form any sort of organization -- it becomes corrupted. Rather than expend your efforts building any sort of organization -- even a cooperative, which will inevitably involve administration, which brings us back to corruption -- why not spend your time living and serving your God? Individually, not as part of a group.

    Just my opinion, worth little, and offered at no cost. (However voluntary contributions are accepted. Would you like to make one? Just a small one, to cover printing costs? Please?)

    Dave

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