WTS says 215 years - Bible says 430 - Which?

by Amazing 21 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Amazing

  215 Years or 430 Years?

  The July 15th WT Study some have been talking about (not sure of which issue of the Wt is involved) was quoted as saying this,

  "WHEN the Israelites headed for freedom after spending 215 years in Egypt, much of that time in slavery, “a vast mixed company also went up with them.” (Exodus 12:38) "

  The above quote was taken from Hippikon's post and cited also by Zev. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=7763&site=3

  The Bible says at Exodus 12:40-41,

  "Now the time that the children of Israel dwelt in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years. And it came to pass at the end of four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of Jehovah went out from the land of Egypt."

  The term "215 years" is no where mentioned in Exodus with respect to any numerical value. Only 430 years is used with respect to Israelite captivity.

  If the person who transcribed the Watchtower article did not make a typing error, then I have to conclude that the Watch Tower Society is losing its collective mind. - Amazing
• 

  Billygoat

  Amazing,

  I can't find my copy of the New World Translation. But you're right...my NIV says the same thing. I'm just curious if the NWT says 215 or 430. Would you be able to answer that question? Also, does the WTS ever have a corrections section in the WT? I don't remember it from when I was a JW, but perhaps things have changed since my exodus.

  Billygoat
• 

  SixofNine

  They are throwing in some obvious errors to shore up the O.G.B.'s (Original Ganster Body) "dyslexia defense".

  ...."brothers, in these end times, stress and human imperfection have left 1/3 of the worlds population with clinically diagnosible illnesses such as ADD, and dyslexia. Should it be any less so for the Gangster Body of Jehovahs people? These dementia ridden ancient worthies have given, collectively, hundreds of thousands* of years in humble service to Christ brothers, all that time bearing the enormous stress load that comes with making all of, and more than all of the hard decisions, the life and death decisions, both spiritual and physical, for those whom God has called.

  The question is before you, are YOU going to be stumbled from Christ love, simply over (clinically diagnosable) stress and illness related errors such as the difference between 430 and 215 years? These hardworking glorious ones, even in their "condition", still got it 50% right! Can any of the worlds fancy pants theologins claim to do better?"

  *Christlike hyperbole
• 

  RunningMan

  The problem here, is that the Society is trying to use a little slight
  of hand defending a book that has some serious flaws. They are
  playing with the start and end date of the Egyptian bondage, by
  saying that the Bible is referring to different events in each case,
  in order to make the Bible's conflicting scriptures add up.

  According to Ex 12:40, the Isrealites were in Egypt for 430 years.

  But, if you follow the geneologies in Ex 6:16-20, and Ex 1:1-5, you
  find that this cannot possibly be true. Here is the Logic:

  Levi came to Egypt with his son Kohath, among others.
  Kohath lived to be 133 years old. His son Amram,
  who lived to be 137 years old, became father to Moses.
  Moses was 80 years old when the events of the Exodus took place.

  If we give the Bible the benefit of every doubt, and assume
  that Kohath was a newborn baby when he came to Egypt, and
  that each man fathered a child on the day of his death, we come
  to the following calculation:
  
  Entered Egypt, Kohath is a baby...................Year 0
  Amram is born.............................Add 133 = Year 133
  Moses is born..............................Add 137 = Year 270
  Exodus begins.............................Add 80 = Year 350

  Now, if we assume that Amram and Kohath fathered their children
  on the day of their death, and the children were born posthumously,
  then we can add another two years, giving an absolute maximum
  of 352 years in Egypt.

  So, even if we accept the unbelievable life span of these men, and
  make ridiculous assumptions about their age when reproducing, the
  numbers still do not add up.
• 

  You Know

  The Bible's count of 430 years starts from the time that God made a covenant with Abraham. That is borne out at Galatians 3:17, where Paul linked the 430 year period to that occasion when the Abrahamic covenant came into existence. The Watchtower's 215 year reference merely referred to the time after Joseph's death when the Israelites were actually enslaved by the Egyptians, after they had already resided there for many years. / You Know
• 

  Amazing

  Hi You Know: You make an interesting observation, but I could not find where the Watchtower clarified this. You said,

  "The Watchtower's 215 year reference merely referred to the time after Joseph's death when the Israelites were actually enslaved by the Egyptians, after they had already resided there for many years. / You Know

  But look again at what the Watchtower magazine reportedly stated according to Zev's comments from the July 15th WT Study, and the unstated study article:

  "WHEN the Israelites headed for freedom after spending 215 years in Egypt, much of that time in slavery, “a vast mixed company also went up with them.” (Exodus 12:38) "

  So it seems that the Watch Tower Society is applying the entire 215 years to that time prior to and including slavery. This does not jive with ANY known time frames discussed in Exodus. So, where does this 215 years come from? - Amazing
• 

  Yerusalyim

  GADS I may end up having to agree with Robert on this one, I"ve actually heard a similar explanation. In fact the foot note to Exodus 12:40 in the New American Bible states;
  

  In Egypt: according to some ancient sources "in Canaan and Egypt" thus reckoning from the time of Abraham. Cf Gals 3,17

  
  Oh but the words are bitter in my mouth, Robert is correct in principle I think, though I'm not ready to use exact terms like "215 years."

  Yeru

  YERUSALYIM
  "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
  [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]
• 

  You Know

  Actually the Insight book, on page 460 mentions the 215 year period from the time that Jacob moved his family down to Egypt during the time when Joseph was ruling the country. So apparently that's why they say "much of that time." / You Know
• 

  RunningMan

  You said: "The Bible's count of 430 years starts from the time that
  God made a covenant with Abraham."

  Hogwash. Read the Bible. Here is what it says: "The time that
  the people of Israel dwelt in Egypt was four hundred and thirty
  years." - Exodus 12:40

  Abraham did not dwell in Egypt. Any attempt to date this time
  period from a starting point other than the Isrealite migration
  to Egypt is simply wishful thinking.
• 

  Amazing

  Hi Runningman: Excellent! Excellent! Excellent! You hit THE proverbial nail on the head! The Israelites dwelled in Egypt for 430 years from the time of Jacob forward until Moses returned and Israel was allowed to leave.

  Further, the whole reason that Jacob and his sons went to Egypt was to see Joseph. By this time Joseph was a grown man and had a big political job. So, Jacob eventually moved his family there to be with his son and because of famine in his own land. Whereas Egypt had plenty of food stored. So, unless a couple of hundred years passed from the time Jospeh was sold into slavery until Jacob moved there, then there is no way that 215 years could have elapsed from the time of Jacob and Joseph until the release of Israel from captivity.

  The Bible is clear about 430 years, and Jews today mark this with their most important celebration, PASSOVER! No Jew in his right mind would ever mention some ficitious 215 year period. Do you have any Idea what gives here, and what the Watchtower is trying to pull off? Thanks again! - Amazing