I hear this crap all the time!

by Schizm 60 Replies latest jw friends

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    I recognized since I was 8 years old that the resurrection doctrine of the WTS didn't make any sense. It involved no continuity of existence; the "life-pattern" that God stores in his memory is only a copy of the original...the example the Society used is that of recording music on audiotape which is a copy of an original performance, and which could be used to make thousands of copies of the same music. If God could resurrect thousands of copies of "me", which of them would be the real me? Or would I be long dead, rotting in the grave, and a later person would be created in the future that would think she was me, would have all my memories, but would not actually be me? For instance, what if I did not die at all but God still remembers my "life-pattern" from 20 years ago to create a "younger version" of me? Would I have no problem committing suicide then because I know I would in fact not die because my "copy" is now living? No, my copy would be "someone else". It was watching Blade Runner and its story about "replicants" that really made it seem so obvious that the Society's resurrection doctrine was an empty hope. To get around it, I secretly made up my own belief that tried to avoid the doctrine of the "immortal soul" and the Society's annihilationism. From Ecclesiastes 12:7, I conjectured that when we die our "spirit" goes to God in heaven and the spirit is our individualized life essence which God then stores for safe-keeping. Then, when God resurrects the dead, I thought he would send each individual's spirit to new bodies. I guess it was a heretical belief from the point of view of the WTS, but it was the best harmonization I could make between common sense and their teachings. There had to be some continuity of essence between the original and the resurrected person.

    Now I realize that the Bible never taught a break in contituity between the two; in fact, it involved a "standing up" again (anastasis) of the person who died. But that's a subject for another post.

  • zen nudist
    zen nudist
    To get around it, I secretly made up my own belief that tried to avoid the doctrine of the "immortal soul" and the Society's annihilationism

    I did something similar which allowed me to stay in the borg in a somewhat sane fashion...

    I had heard that in QM one could not directly read a quatum energy signiture without changing it.... but one could have another medium read it and then put it on another copy like the transporter in startrek so that all the original info is retained exactly and no copies would be able to be made...so I figured that the spirit which returns to God could accomplish this go between work from my old self to the new self and solve all the problems....

    this satisfied me for months until I made the mistake of bringing it up to an elder.... he said that per watchtower dogma NO info was taken by the spirit leaving us at death, that it was like electricity only and its return meant that it just stopped working like pulling the plug on a radio.

    but I kept my view in secret afterwards until my final exit

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Very, very interesting, zen nudist. So I wonder how many of us as dubs claimed not to believe in the immortal soul doctrine and yet rejected the Society's claim that the spirit is nothing but an electricity-like force?

  • zen nudist
    zen nudist
    Very, very interesting, zen nudist. So I wonder how many of us as dubs claimed not to believe in the immortal soul doctrine and yet rejected the Society's claim that the spirit is nothing but an electricity-like force?

    it seems to me that all Dub's have an unconscious belief in an immortal soul.... after all they do believe they will SLEEP in death and then that part of them sleeping will awaken.... I doubt a single one of them really thinks they will be destroyed and a copy will be allowed to live in their place.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    When I was a JW I used to talk to different ones about the WT's teaching of the resurection, because I didn't buy into it,,(I felt the spirt of the soul was the very essance of being). Many would get nerveous and defend the org when I brought up the subject.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I just thought I'd pop in and say I am thoroughly enjoying the turnabout on this thread. There's lots of meat to chew on here. Thanks for the civilized discussion.

    Refreshing.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    uh I alway heard that song had to do with neither heaven or hell, but actually a womens vagina,

    The song was cowritten by June Carter Cash when she was married to someone else and Johnny Cash was married to someone else. When she met Johnny, the chemistry between them was so strong that June said she felt as if she were burning up. I had always heard this. The song and its inspiration was discussed on NPR last week.

  • Pole
    Pole

    zen,

    it seems to me that all Dub's have an unconscious belief in an immortal soul.... after all they do believe they will SLEEP in death and then that part of them sleeping will awaken.... I doubt a single one of them really thinks they will be destroyed and a copy will be allowed to live in their place.

    It can all be explained with only one statement: Jehovah will make things all right. We need not worry.

    leolaia,

    I was also unsatisfied with the video-tape example.

    Pole

  • zen nudist
    zen nudist
    It can all be explained with only one statement: Jehovah will make things all right. We need not worry.

    that cop out was used by umpteen JWs towards this issue, but the one thing they never allow is when another religion uses the very same thing....its a matter of faith... then they damn and castigate them for having doctrines of men...etc.

  • Pole
    Pole

    Exactly. I think one of the main differences between the WTS and some more liberal mainstream denominations is that the former attempts to pretend faith is not only a matter of faith and that it can actually make sense in some objectively verifiable way.


    Pole

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