I am getting that Crisis of Conscience book (page 2)

under74

ko38- I think you're right. I don't question inquirer having good intentions. I hope none of my posts were taken that way.

Franz raises some interesting issues in the book, but take everything he says with a grain of salt. He comes off as a little self-centered. For example, he makes statements to the contrary, but to me he seemed to take little responsibility for Witness beliefs and practices even though he sat on the Governing Body for years. Look for a passage in which he criticizes himself, because I doubt you'll find one. Then he blasts the Governing Body for never admitting their mistakes. He seeks sympathy from the reader and sought sympathy from the Governing Body when he was being disfellowshipped after decades of service to God (and the Organization), yet rather harshly states that his uncle's decades of service will mean nothing to God when he faces judgement. That's blatant hypocrisy, and I feel it damages his credibility. Nevertheless, I do highly recommend the book; it contains a treasure trove of information from a unique source. Still, I wouldn't read In Search of Christian Freedom.

Kenneson

I read Crisis of Conscience about three months ago because I wanted to know why so many people were commenting about it. I found out for myself. It was an eyeopener. Now I think it's time for me to get In Search of Christian Freedom.

FairMind

Hello Inquirer! Some Good Books to read besides COC are:

1. Apocalypse Delayed James Penton

2. Captives of a Concept Don Cameron

3. Awakening of a Jehovah’s Witness Diane Wilson

4. In Search of Christian Ray Franz

I understand that you are looking for a critical analysis or perhaps other type insight into Jehovah’s Witnesses, not the Bible.

FairMind

funkyderek

inquirer:

For crying out allowed! I don't have to get something if I don't believe it! I've already made up my mind about that kinda thing!

Of course you're free to do exactly that, but what I have found infinitely more useful is testing my beliefs. Yes, sometimes it will mean letting go of cherished preconceptions but it can only ever result in you knowing more than you did before. You will notice that most JWs refuse to look at anything critical of their belief system. This stops them from ever having to consider that they may be wrong. Therefore they remain JWs.

I am starting to notice, people on this message board are trying to dictate my beliefs! I've never dictated on this message board -- not even once! I've always respected other people's opinions, even though at times I don't agree with them!

I will always respect other people's right to hold a different opinion. If that opinion is not based on evidence, I will not respect the opinion, and if the person refuses to consider evidence that contradicts their beliefs, I will not have much respect for the person.

AlmostAtheist

He seeks sympathy from the reader and sought sympathy from the Governing Body when he was being disfellowshipped after decades of service to God (and the Organization), yet rather harshly states that his uncle's decades of service will mean nothing to God when he faces judgement. That's blatant hypocrisy, and I feel it damages his credibility. Nevertheless, I do highly recommend the book;

I love these kinds of comments because it shows we didn't go from being "Rusellites" to being "Franzites". Once your eyes are opened and you stop letting people spoon-feed you information, you stop letting ANYONE spoon-feed you. I don't agree with Ray Franz about the Bible and I don't have to. It feels SO GOOD to be able to say whatever you're thinking without worrying about it turning into some sort of action by the elders.

'It's wrong and biased in some areas, but I recommend it.' -- an ex-JW about Crisis of Conscience

Any JW's willing to make the same admission about the Watchtower? That would make quite a presentation at the door, wouldn't it? "The paper's a little cheap, the reporting's weak and very shallow, and the scriptural points made are probably open to interpretation, but I like them. You want a copy?"

Dave

MungoBaobab

With those kinds of presentations, placements might just increase!

one

Mungo,

Look for a passage in which he criticizes himself, because I doubt you'll find one. Then he blasts the Governing Body for never admitting their mistakes.

I doubt he will NOT find one. Actually i am sure he will find at least one or two "passage" where Raymond Franz does "criticizes himself ". sorry i dont have the booi with me right now to quote it.

To be fair his conclusion is that he, GB members and all jw were/are "VICTIM OF VICTIMS",

i beleive that. those who teached my family the "truth" were doing sincerely, beleiving what in turn was teached to them previously. Think about your case... or anyone here about the persons who teached you the jw religion.

BUT no-one is withot blame, the book says. In my own words, those who accepted the jw religion did not do their "Home Work" (trade mark of Whoknowwhom) before joining, but swalloed the 'hook' and everything else....

yet rather harshly states that his uncle's decades of service will mean nothing to God when he faces judgement. That's blatant hypocrisy

If he say that: "nothing"... he not too far from logic. What will "mean" "decades of service" when after confronted with facts and reality the person continues (as done for "decades") to teach what has been proven false?

'talking like that about his uncle , I find being honest rather than "hypocrisy", he mentioned his uncle several times confirming that his uncle was the "oracle", the one reponsible for all major rules and teachings, including 1975 , not an small thing by the way. IMO his uncle was afraid and jelous... Freddy got used to get "kissed" by every other member of the GB, even Knorr (president for decades) was reluctant to go against his opinions, the whole WT depended on Freddy for doctrines and bible interpretations.

But now a honest man, as smart as his uncle, was capable and had the guts to speak out and make sense out of all those doctrines.

AK - Jeff

I read both of Franz' books, twice. I am no 'Franzite', but I do stay in touch with Ray from time to time. We have not had the opportunity to meet face to face yet, but I hope to someday.

That said; I would suggest that no single individual has had a greater impact in the matter of aiding others to leave the organization for 'Religious' reasons. Many have left for other reasons, but for those of us who were deeply ingrained with the cult and it's teachings, his books were invaluable. I do not know how my wife and I could have escaped had his books not so clearly opened our eyes to false dogma, especially the culpability of those at the 'top'.

Raymond Franz is not perfect. But to his credit, he sacrificed comfort and community at the age of 60, to stand up against the watchtower wrongs. I heartily reccommend those books to all who will read them. My personal copies are now on loan to the local Lutheran Pastor, as his interest in the control aspects of the organization have been piqued.

Ray's unique perspective cannot be denied. He is obviously well read and a capable author. While I cannot speak to the issue of his efforts to gain 'sympathy', I certainly did not see that.

The reading listed above I agree with also; Penton, Jonnson, Cameron, Wilson.

Sorry to get on a soapbox - and all are entitled to their own opinion about Ray Franz - but tens of thousands might never have had the guts to leave without his books.

Just my opinion

Jeff

inquirer

under74 --

nobodys telling you not to get the book.

Sure it can be frustrating but that's the risk you take when posting or the internet or even e-mailing someone. If you think someone misread what you've written than just write "no, that's not what I meant." And then state what you meant. No offense intended.

All the best to you.

I am getting that Crisis of Conscience book

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