Some christian consciences have allowed

by IP_SEC 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  IP_SEC

  Atrolling we will go Atrolling we will go.

  Another subject of this post could be: The devaluation of christian conscience in Jehovah's Witnesses.

  You ever notice that the WT will sometimes print things that some Christians can do with a clean conscience. Things that in the past were a big NO NO but now are ok? Since there are a lot of things I could do with a clean conscience: birthdays; smoke; oral sex; bla bla bla, could I use this reasoning as a defense? If not how do I get to become one of these ?some Christians??

  Is this not a precedent to do what ever your conscience allows betwixt you and god?

  *** w94 10/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
  Some Christians who feel that they can in good conscience accept such injections have noted that antibodies from the blood of a pregnant woman cross into the blood of the baby in her womb.

  *** w90 6/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
  That some protein fractions from the plasma do move naturally into the blood system of another individual (the fetus) may be another consideration when a Christian is deciding whether he will accept immune globulin, albumin, or similar injections of plasma fractions. One person may feel that he in good conscience can; another may conclude that he cannot. Each must resolve the matter personally before God.

  *** w81 10/15 p. 31 Questions from Readers ***
  The individual Christian would have to decide for himself after considering what the law of the land requires and factors such as those discussed above, including the value of having a good conscience before God and men

  *** w78 6/15 p. 30 Questions from Readers ***
  There are Christian witnesses of Jehovah who, with a good conscience, have allowed these devices to be used, provided that the machines were primed with a nonblood fluid, such as Ringer?s lactate solution.
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  AlmostAtheist

  Even as a dub, I never understood this "conscience" thing. If I train myself that using a blue pen is bad, my conscience will prick me whenever I use one. The "conscience" strikes me as just my own perceptions of right and wrong, reminding me when I start to break the rules that I have set up for myself. If I was raised to believe it was ok to kill people that were 6 feet tall or taller, and I believed that it was ok to do so, I can't believe my conscience would bother me a whit if I did it. (Providing there was no outside influence suggesting it was wrong, therefore making me question my belief.)

  So how can it "guide" me? I program it, it can only guide me in the direction that I have already trained it to go.

  Of course, it wasn't a problem as a dub, since "conscience matter" just means, "We haven't forbidden it yet".

  Dave
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  ezekiel3

  Don't be fooled, this is the "good cop" side of the WTS.

  If you push the "conscience issues" you will be marked and especially brothers who have/want responsibilities will be removed from their "priveledges."

  The "principles" outlined by the WTS minimize legal liability and let the elders play "bad cop" instead.

  Read between the lines below, this is the reality of JW life:

  ***

  w02 4/15 p. 21 Guide Your Steps by Godly Principles ***

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  Knowing and applying principles also protects us from the snare of empty, formal worship. There is a difference between following principles and legalistically obeying rules. Jesus clearly showed this in the Sermon on the Mount. (Matthew 5:17-48) Remember that Jesus? listeners were Jews, so their conduct should have been governed by the Mosaic Law. But in reality they had a distorted view of the Law. They had come to stress the letter of the Law rather than its spirit. And they emphasized their traditions, putting such above the teaching of God. (Matthew 12:9-12; 15:1-9) As a consequence, the people in general were not taught to think in terms of principles.
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  IP_SEC

  Of course, it wasn't a problem as a dub, since "conscience matter" just means, "We haven't forbidden it yet".

  Exactly AA. The Dub conscience is an imature pile of stinky crap. The society pretends that it allows for conscience, but the fact is that the society is the conscience.

  (Providing there was no outside influence suggesting it was wrong, therefore making me question my belief.)

  Outside influence is ok, you can still become mature in your thinking if you are influenced. We are all influenced by one thing or another throughout life. The problem is that the society keeps people perpetually imature not by influence but by overruling the person with law.

  By making something a conscience matter by not forbidding it, they infer that somethings are conscience matters and somethings arent. When the fact is that EVERYTHING is a conscience matter. They thereby weaken the individuals ablity to make decisions without the society's help. No?

  IPSec
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  Pole

  Dave,
  
  There's one more limitation which comes with the Christian conscience according to the WTS. If you decide to use your "bible-trained" conscience, you should be careful not to "stumble" other dubs and their "bible-trained" conscience. Which effectively takes any remaining appearances of personal freedom away from you.
  
  
  
  
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  IP_SEC

  had come to stress the letter of the Law rather than its spirit. And they emphasized their traditions, putting such above the teaching of God. (Matthew 12:9-12; 15:1-9) As a consequence, the people in general were not taught to think in terms of principles.

  Exactly Ezekiel this is the kind of reasoning I'd expect from a true prophet as yourself :P.

  Remeber the unclean woman who had the flow of blood in the crowd? Luke 8:40. She was breaking gods law and Jesus didnt even mention it. Why, he wasnt a slave to the letter of the law nor was he a slave to another mans conscience. He was reasonable, yielding. The Society is not!
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  AlmostAtheist

  She was breaking gods law and Jesus didnt even mention it.

  I heard the elders met with her privately and she was privately reproved. (I think one of the elder's wives leaked it)

  Pole: Yeah, that 'don't stumble others' crap gives them license to shut down anything they like. In fact with their, "What if someone sees you doing this and gets stumbled?" foolishness, they actually encourage you to lead a double-life.
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  Honesty

  I fell for twisted reasoning such as this for years.
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  czarofmischief

  To those who have chosen to become teacher or shepherds, it must be a real trial to let Christian disciples stand on their own. But it is impossible to prevent it - the more rules you provide, the more they need! The truly great thing about Christianity, I think, is that the conscience really does become refined and mature. This allows for reasoned thought and discussion on the part of those not deemed to be great moral teachers or philosophers.

  Hence, "Out of the mouths of babes" takes on real meaning, when we think that even those without a huge amount of worldly understanding can still clearly and concisely determine a valid answer to moral conflicts. This is particularly true of each individual case, whereby the teacher or the preacher is released from total responsibility regarding his pupil's choices in matters of conscience.

  Where the Society started to go wrong was to try to draw a line around certain things as NOT being conscience matters. Which is ridiculous. EVERYTHING is a conscience matter, even those decisions that seem pretty much cut and dry to observers. Whether or not I rob a bank is still up to my conscience, regardless of what I have been taught or not. Even if I think it is wrong, it is still up to me and my conscience to decide NOT to do it.

  As for you and your conscience, it really is up to you. Like Jesus said, "If I decide he should remain until I come, what is that to you? Keep following me." I can think of no clearer injunction against petty rulemaking. Certain provisos, like disfellowshipping, were created by Paul in order to help the new congregation conform to the Roman system as far as was possible. They really have no application in modern society.

  CZAR
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  jeanniebeanz

  you should be careful not to "stumble" other dubs and their "bible-trained" conscience. Which effectively takes any remaining appearances of personal freedom away from you.

  This is so true. Your conscience may be strong enough to allow you to do something, but if you offend some weakling's conscience you're smacked.

  There is no 'conscience' allowance with these people. They just mention it so that when they are sued, they can pull out some reference to conscience in print, and get away with murder.

  Jean