by chuckyy 49 Replies latest jw experiences
oh chuckky
i am so sorry to hear of this, especially with your 5 year old,,,,i would not only go to the parents and elders as AA suggested,,,,,,
i would go to the school, principal, both teachers and counsellor and nurse if they have one....they will handle this correctly
and possibly open some eyes in the school re shunning
wendy
To the contrary, Jehovah's Christian Witnesses are a faith based on love. (John 13:34,35; 1 John 4:6-12)
To the contrary, Jehovah's Christian Witnesses are a faith based on love. (John 13:34,35; 1 John 4:6-12)
Prove it... Jeannie
Why not on the sly bring your mother in law to this thread and show her how evil all the apostates can be?
David: I will not stand for your apologetics. That you think the JW cult is based in love is your opinion.
It is immoral to promote the idea that JWs consider it acceptable to associate with their DF relatives. Anyone who does this is liable for DFing themselves. The proof is in writing:
*** km 8/02 p. 4 Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped ***Relatives
Not in the Household: "The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home," states The Watchtower of April 15, 1988, page 28. "It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum," in harmony with the divine injunction to "quit mixing in company with anyone" who is guilty of sinning unrepentantly. (1 Cor. 5:11) Loyal Christians should strive to avoid needless association with such a relative, even keeping business dealings to an absolute minimum.?See also The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 29-30.***
w81 9/15 p. 31 If a Relative Is Disfellowshiped . . . ***28
Naturally, if a close relative is disfellowshiped, human emotions can pose a major test for us. Sentiment and family ties are particularly strong between parents and their children, and they are also powerful when a marriage mate is disfellowshiped. Still, we must recognize that, in the final analysis, we will not benefit anyone or please God if we allow emotion to lead us into ignoring His wise counsel and guidance. We need to display our complete confidence in the perfect righteousness of God?s ways, including his provision to disfellowship unrepentant wrongdoers. If we remain loyal to God and to the congregation, the wrongdoer may in time take a lesson from that, repent and be reinstated in the congregation.
***
w55 10/1 p. 607 Questions from Readers ***He should be strongly admonished, being impressed with the fact that by associating with the disfellowshiped one he is a companion of wickedness and that by his course of action he is dividing himself from the congregation to be with the wrongdoer. If after sufficient warning the publisher persists in associating with the disfellowshiped person instead of aligning himself with Jehovah?s organization he also should be disfellowshiped
Your comments are both deceitful and insensitive to the members of this board that survive the very treatment that exposes your lies.
I would like to ask David how he can possibly believe that the doctrine of disfellowshipping and its consequence of shunning can be based on love? Have you taken the time to read the many heartbraking stories of how families have been torn apart because of this? Is it right to tell a mother that she can no longer see/associate with her daughter? Is it right that a daughter decides to no longer see her mother? Is it right for a father not to be invited to his daughters wedding? Is it right that a son decides not to attend his fathers funeral? And all of this because a person may decide that he/she can no longer agree with the societies teachings (not necessarily that a person is an unrepentant sinner!) Is it right that a teenager gets disfellowshipped and is driven to suicide through guilt and despair?
Is it right that a person who still lives by high moral principles, who still loves God/Christ and has faith in the Bible, to be treated as if they were dead...even by their own family? It is noteable that Jesus allocated much of his time to the outcasts of Jewish society, those that were shunned and viewed as nothing.
If you have ever shunned someone, did it feel natural to do that? The reason it did not feel natural is because it was going against the very feelings and image of God that you were made in.
Ezekiel 3, You missed what I believe our some important paragraphs from that WT article (WT 9/15/1981): 14 But what if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshiped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation. 15 For example, a disfellowshiped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8) Perhaps it seems necessary to bring the parent into the home, temporarily or permanently. Or it may appear advisable to arrange for care where there is medical personnel but where the parent would have to be visited. What is done may depend on factors such as the parent's true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household. 16 This could be true also with regard to a child who had left home but is now disfellowshiped or disassociated. Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into the home for a time a disfellowshiped child who has become physically or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshiped son lived on his own, and is he now unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring "leaven" into the home?-Gal. 5:9. 17 In Jesus' parable of the prodigal son, the father ran to meet and then accepted his returning son. The father, seeing the lad's pitiful condition, responded with natural parental concern. We can note, though, that the son did not bring home harlots or come with a disposition to continue his sinful life in his father's home. No, he expressed heartfelt repentance and evidently was determined to return to living a clean life.-Luke 15:11-32. Article focusing on Prodigal Son: WT 5/1/82: Have I Gone Too Far? "Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy of being called your son," is how the prodigal felt after he "came to his senses." Others have felt the same way-unworthy of being called one of God's family.-Luke 15:17-19. "You realize that you have knowingly turned your back on Jehovah. This guilt gave me a sick feeling," admitted Virginia. "When I started becoming active again, I had a real battle starting to pray again. I kept thinking, 'What does Jehovah want with me, since I turned my back on him.'" Others have felt that they committed the "unforgivable sin." Did the father, who knew that his son's sins were great, view them as unforgivable? Was he cold and indifferent when the boy reappeared? Not at all! He had been looking for his son. "While he was yet a long way off, his father caught sight of him," according to Jesus. (Luke 15:20) Neighbors may only have seen the rags, the dirt, the bare feet, but the father saw "him." He knew what a long way the son had come. It was obvious he had left his "debauched life" and was truly repentant.-Proverbs 28:13. The father ran to embrace his son. The most the son had hoped for was to become a 'hired man,' someone really not a member of the household and in some respects worse off than a slave. Never could he have imagined his father's response: "Quick! Bring out a robe, the best one, and clothe him with it, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. And bring the fattened young bull, slaughter it and let us eat and enjoy ourselves." How wonderfully Jesus illustrated the wholehearted response of the father!-Luke 15:22, 23. The father knew that the prodigal had already paid a dear price-the emotional scars of "living a debauched life" and losing all his money, the agony of being friendless and without food and shelter during a famine, the shame of eating with pigs, and finally, the long journey home. So, too, Jehovah realizes that one truly suffers while "lost" and that it is not easy to return. Yet our compassionate heavenly Father, who is "abundant in loving-kindness," 'will not for all time keep finding fault nor according to our errors bring upon us what we deserve' if we are genuinely repentant and "set matters straight" with him. Some who have committed even gross sins while separated from the Christian congregation, but who return in true repentance, confessing their sins before the elders, may expect loving, considerate treatment leading on to full recovery.-Psalm 103:8-10; 130:3; Isaiah 1:18, 19. True, the Bible speaks of some unfaithful Christians whose sins are not forgiven. However, Paul shows that these are "in opposition" to the Truth and contemptuously trample on the ransom sacrifice by esteeming it as of ordinary value. (Hebrews 10:26-31) But have you ever taken such an extreme step? Your sincere consideration of this material, rather than having contempt for it, indicates that you still have some love for spiritual things. The fact that you feel guilty and disturbed at heart shows that you have not gone too far. Be assured that Jehovah will answer your prayerful request just as he answered that of David, who pleaded: "Forgive my error, for it is considerable."-Psalm 25:11. Applying Godly Principles - WT 1/1/95 Even at the time of disfellowshipping an individual, the elders, as shepherds, will urge him to repent and try to make his way back into Jehovah's favor. Remember the "wicked man" in Corinth. Evidently he changed his way, and Paul later recommended his reinstatement. (2 Corinthians 2:7, 8) Consider also King Manasseh. He was very wicked indeed, but when he finally repented, Jehovah accepted his repentance.-2 Kings 21:10-16; 2 Chronicles 33:9, 13, 19. When one is disfellowshipped from the congregation, whether it is a relative or friend in the congregation, that causes a lot of pain to the members of the congregation, including the elders. They truly feel saddened that one was disfellowship due to not repenting. They feel pain because they still love the person who has left, but hate the wrong conduct that he or she is practicing. But as Christiasn we must follow the biblical course as mentioned in 1 Cor. 5:5-9. But what joy it brings to the congregation when one repents and comes back to true Christianity, just like the joy the father felt from the prodigal son parable, when his son returned and repented!!!
When my son was disfellowshipped he was living in the same home with me and my daughter. He was just barely 17. I was sorry for the whole situation, that is, the drama and the trauma in connection with the congregation and his belief that he was now "dead" in the eyes of God but as far as I was concerned NOTHING WHATSOEVER had changed and I continued on as usual.
I sat with my kids at the Hall and talked to them, even laughed when something was funny in the meeting, etc., just as much as ever. I couldn't care less about some organization's "view" that my son was in some new "state".
Well this offended "a lot" of brothers and sisters apparently, so I got called in the back along with my daughter and we were given warnings and "instructions" on how to interact with my own son.
Well, I acted calm and understanding with these swine but at home it was an entirely different story and the kids will NEVER wonder how I would react to anyone's attempt to change my relationship with either of my children.
My daughter and I were not permitted to talk to him while at the Kingdom Hall or even in the parking lot! And no smiling and especially no laughing quietly together. This was HIGHLY offensive to the so-called "people" at the Hall.
So for the sake of my son's desire to be reinstated and rejoin his community and many, many friends, I cooperated with the well-meaning but stupid men in charge at the Soviet Hall.
But as soon as he was reinstated, I stopped attending. Yay!!! Liberated.
DAVID
I have read your recent post and it seems that you are a genuine caring person...but i think that you have missed a number of points. Firtstly, you yourself agree that it took real effort on the part of the prodigal son to return..it was hard for him. His father knew this to be the case and so ran to embrace him.BUT....this is not the same with regard to returning to Jehovahs witnesses. There is a period, normally months where a repentant person has to attend the meetings whereby noone at all will speak to him/her. The person normally has to come in when the meeting has already started and leave before or immediately as it finishes to avoid any embarrasment. Now, i ask you David with all sincerity, is that manifesting the IMMEDIATE assurance and love of the prodigal sons father OR is it .....just perhaps...manifesting a spirit more like the other Brother?? (Lets wait and make him work and see if he has really changed)
Secondly....you do, again with all sincerity, seem to view all disfellowshipped persons as having committed some terrible moral sin. What of those who are still living as christians with a deep faith in the Bible, but who simply left Jehovahs Witnesses because they could not agree with all the societies teaching??? Do they deserve such treatment with regard to shunning that may involve family splits??
For example. What if there was a mother with a small child that needed an organ transplant. What if that was the only option to avoid the childs slow agonizing death. But, the mother...with strong faith in God and the society refuses believing that it is unscriptural. Her child dies. 1 year later she reads the latest watchtower that now says its a matter of conscience as to whether someone accepts a transplant. The mother is distraught. Although she has always had a strong faith, whichever way she looks at it, her child has died for something that was wrong. (In other words..her child has died for nothing)
The mother in her bitterness turns against Jehovahs witnesses and disassociates herself. She is shunned and treated as if she were dead too, just like her child. I ask you in all sincerity David, can you honestly say in your heart of hearts that this is deserved on the part of the mother??? Is it loving??? And yet these situations are not hypothetical...they have happened to many good people.
I would very much like to hear your reply.
Chukky
Chukky, In my last post I quoted some of the WT materials because it was posted here that Witnesses completely shun their relatives whereas the WT clearly states that relatives can have contact with them and even let the disfellowshipped come back home. Unfortunately the quotes from the WT and my comments were wrapped as one text. For some reason when I submitted the post, the quotes were not separated from my comments. The words "When one is disfellowshipped from the congregation, whether it is a relative or friend in the congregation, that causes a lot of pain to the members of the congregation, including the elders. They truly feel saddened that one was disfellowship due to not repenting. They feel pain because they still love the person who has left, but hate the wrong conduct that he or she is practicing. But as Christiasn we must follow the biblical course as mentioned in 1 Cor. 5:5-9. But what joy it brings to the congregation when one repents and comes back to true Christianity, just like the joy the father felt from the prodigal son parable, when his son returned and repented!!!", were my own comments and are not from the WT. Someone in a post called me a liar, but I felt that the individual left out pertinent paragraphs from that article, which shows that I was not lying. As can be seem from those articles a family may accept a disfellowshiped relative back into their home. Does this not remind of the prodigal son case? And from my personal experience I have known a few brothers and sisters that have been disfellowshipped. And of course, it is very sad to the entire congregation when that happens. But when they are reinstated, the brothers are so happy that can wait to hug them and welcome them back to the congregation. I myself was disfellowshipped for a time, and my mother and sisters, would invite home from time to time. True, we did not go out together our trips, movies, etc, while I was out, but they did talk to me on the phone, invited for dinner occassionally, showing that they still cared for me. And one elder, who's son was expelled, occassionally invited his son for dinner. Regarding the woman who may have become discouraged for not accepting a transplant: it is my understanding that one reason organ transplants were not accepted before was because they required massive blood transfusions. Nowadays, organ transplants have been done successfully without the use of blood transfusions. This may help explain why now it is left as a matter of conscience. Can a person who was a Witness and still loves God but rejects the Witnesses, can we still speak to them. Well, even that article states in an earlier paragraph that if a husband or wife leaves the truth, since that person is still part of the family, they will still be a family. However, the spirtual ties will be broken. I personally do not understand why some leave the truth to believe in a God that tortures one forever in a hell, to believe that Jesus is God, etc. There was one book by an ex-Witness called Fearless Love, in which she alleges that Witnesses remain Witnesses because of fear. Yet in one paragraph in her book she warns about a burning hell which we will face unless we repent. I ask, who truly is serving Jehovah in a fearless love?
