Flat earth myths of Alan F

by Rex B13 18 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Seeker

  Hmm...real information...OK, I'll bite:

  Wisdom 7
  17 For he hath given me certain knowledge of the things that
  are, namely, to know how the world was made, and the
  operation of the elements:

  OK, so God is going to explain some things about the creation of the earth, and the way it works.

  18 The beginning, ending, and midst of the times:

  Perhaps talking about seasons.

  the alterations of the turning of the sun, and the change of
  seasons:
  19 The circuits of years, and the positions of stars:

  The sun turning around the earth, like they used to believe back then.

  So we have an erroneous belief about the sun, and nothing about the shape of the earth that I can see.

  Hmm, that sure sounds like earth orbiting the sun but then I suppose you say "they imagined it like a pizza pie whirling around the heavenly bodies, along with the stars."

  Actually, it says the sun 'turned', not the earth. How do you see the earth orbiting, when it says the sun 'turning'? And how does this say anything about the earth being a sphere? Serious questions, by the way. I really don't understand how you make those interpretations based on those verses.
• 

  Farkel

  dub-dub,

  : Make no mistake. I hold Columbus in very high regard. Columbus was a Christian missionary. His stated purpose in sailing to the Orient was to take the Gospel to an unsaved world.

  Make no mistake. I hold Columbus in the lowest of regard. Columbus was a fortune seeker and one of the biggest dirtbags who ever existed. His stated purposes was noble and all of that, but the plain truth is he brought disease and particularly syphylis to an "unsaved world." Therefore, he "saved" them by having them die horrible deaths from European diseases.

  Shall we now talk about the other Spanish "Christians" who followed and "helped" those natives on their own land who never asked for any help? Shall we talk about entire decimated cultures and civilizations because "Christians" wanted to find gold and didn't give a shit who they killed or what they did to find it?

  "Christian" history is full of misery for the folks who got in the way of the "true believers."

  Christianity is a Snare and a Racket. Da Judge got one thing right. He probably said that during those few minutes per day when he was sober.

  Praise Jeeeeeeeezzzzzuuuuzzzz and all he has spawned!

  Farkel
• 

  AlanF

  : Here's just one little example for you, Al Baby:

  You're such a complete dork, WW. Let's take a look.

  First, according to your Fundy handlers, "Wisdom" or "The Wisdom of Solomon", being an apocryphal book, is not part of the Bible. It certainly isn't part of the Hebrew Bible. It was almost certainly written in Greek, probably in Alexandria, well after the Greek Septuagint was written, since it contains many allusions to LXX phraseology.

  Thus, the book was written sometime after the traditional LXX composition date, i.e., after 270 B.C. But that's when the Jews had been heavily Hellenized, and had absorbed much of Greek thinking. Therefore, any references to a spherical earth would necessarily have come from the Greeks, since the Hebrew Bible certainly doesn't contain any.

  : Hmm, that sure sounds like earth orbiting the sun but then I suppose you say "they imagined it like a pizza pie whirling around the heavenly bodies, along with the stars."

  The passage from Wisdom that you quoted contains no references to a spherical earth or to the earth orbiting the sun, as I will show.

  : Wisdom 7
  : 17 For he hath given me certain knowledge of the things that are, namely, to know how the world was made, and the operation of the elements:

  No references here.

  18 The beginning, ending, and midst of the times:

  No references here.

  : the alterations of the turning of the sun,

  Other translations render this as "the alternations of the solstices". The solstices are the 1st days of summer and winter, and are also the points on the ecliptic (apparent path of the sun against the background stars) where the sun is farthest from the celestial equator (the projection of the earth's equator onto the starry sky), which determines the 1st days of summer and winter. So all this is saying is that the solstices, or summer and winter, alternate. Duh.

  No references to the shape of the earth or to its orbit around the sun here.

  : and the change of seasons:

  No references here.

  : 19 The circuits of years,

  Alternate translation: "the cycles of years". It's not evident exactly what this means, but it certainly has no reference to what you claim. One possibility is that it refers to the years coming one after another. Another is that it refers to the 19-year metonic cycle, i.e., the cycle in which lunar eclipses nearly repeat.

  No references here.

  : and the positions of stars:

  No references here.

  So, WW, you've once again shot yourself in the head. Your very own quote disproves your claim.

  : LOL

  The laughter of a fool.

  So what other gems of wisdom do you have for us, WW?

  AlanF
• 

  hawkaw

  Alan,

  I got up this AM in a very serious mood and began reading this thread once again on the flat earth society. I read this final post of yours and haven't stopped laughing for 15 minutes.

  Don't hold anything back okay.

  hawk
• 

  AlanF

  Just bringing this to the top so people can see what kind of idiot Fundies tend to produce -- someone who is so brainwashed that he can't comprehend simple English sentences when his Fundy handlers tell him the words mean something else.

  AlanF
• 

  Rex B13

  The sun ROTATES on its axis.
• 

  Rex B13

  Just bringing this to the top to show the callous, arrogant, insulting diatribes that result from direct opposition to the assertions of atheists.
  Whine all you want boys, your 'flat earth' concepts are exposed for all to see!

  "The story which has become so much a part of American history textbooks; the story that Columbus was warned that he would fall off the edge of the earth if he sailed west: well, that story is the invention of a struggling American author of fiction - Washington Irving (1783-1859). Yes, the story of the flat earth and Columbus is the work of the author of the Sketch Book (1820), which included his stories of The Legend of Sleepy Hollow (The Headless Horseman) and Rip Van Winkle.

  (This sounds a little like our self-proclaimed elite intellectual Alan, who by his own claims has disproven a myriad of Biblical concepts. This comes from a man who still supports the doctrinal assertions of C.T. Russell, like no literal hell, no immortal soul and no trinity!)

  Today we find it hard to believe, but in the early years of our country there were few national heroes. When we broke our ties to England we also broke our ties to the heroes of centuries past. One of the persons who helped to fill that void was Columbus. Note the large number of capitol cities named after Columbus - Columbia, SC; Columbus, Oh; and the District of Columbia.

  Irving was born in New York City. In 1815, he moved to Europe. He lived in France and Spain until 1832. While in Spain he translated a collection of manuscripts concerning Columbus voyage. In 1828, he published a largely fictional work entitled The Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus.

  Irving described himself as "apt to indulge in the imagination." The obvious problem being that readers of The Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus could not possibly tell what was fact and what was fiction. For example, his description of the Council of Salamanca was a complete fabrication.

  In 1834, Antoine-Jean Letronne (1787-1848), produced a more scholarly work attempting to tie the belief in a flat earth with the early church fathers, Revue des Deux Mondes. He was educated in the teachings of Mentelle and Voltaire. In 1798, he wrote a book claiming that Jesus Christ was an imposter. In Revue he wrote that the flat earth was the majority view of the early Christian writers. His statements were untrue, but liberal scholars have quoted him for almost two centuries. Between Irving and Letronne the flat earth myth became a "well-known fact."

  (Why does Alan hide the fact that he was 'snookered' again?)

  Two more men have served to popularize this myth. In 1874, John W. Draper wrote an antichurch diatribe entitled History of the Conflict Between Religion and Science. In 1865, Andrew D. White became cofounder of the first explicitly secular university in the U. S., Cornell University. In 1897, he wrote History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom. Both men were attempting to discredit creationists in the battle over origins.

  J. B. Russell wrote Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians, 1991. He is no creationist, but he thoroughly documents how the invention of the flat earth was a direct attack against God, the history of the Church and truth in general by secular humanists who were attempting to defend the idea of Christian ignorance versus enlightened rationalists (evolutionists)."

  Stay on the subject, JWs, don't try the old 'dodge and run'.
  Have a nice day!
  Rex
• 

  Seeker

  We're dodging and running, WW? You're the one who didn't comment on my questions about that excerpt from the book of Wisdom. You also ignored AlanF's comments on the same passage.

  What are you hiding from?
• 

  AlanF

  We note once again, poor demented WW, that you have no answers and so you resort to name calling, dragging red herrings around, and every device you can muster to avoid admitting it to yourself.

  BTW, the phrase in Wisdom, "turnings of the sun", does not refer to the sun rotating on its axis, but as the translations I quoted show, to the sun's "turnings" in the sky, i.e., its movements in the sky. In any case, even if you could show that the phrase refers to the sun turning on its axis, that has nothing whatsoever to do with the shape of the earth or the fact that the earth orbits the sun. And of course, you've completely ignored the fact that Wisdom was written by Jews who had strongly absorbed Greek culture, and you yourself pointed out that the Greeks knew the shape of the earth.

  Come on, bluster brain: bring on some more poop we can smear on your face.

  AlanF