Which is worse, Islam or Christendom? (page 2)

LittleToe

HS:
Good point, but to be fair Christianity has a 600 year headstart on Islam. Just think what state Christendom (thanks Czar) was in in 1405. The reformation hadn't taken place and inquisitions was in full swing!!!

There are some liberal Muslims showing face, which is nice to see.

hillary_step

LT,

Good point, but to be fair Christianity has a 600 year headstart on Islam. Just think what state Christendom (thanks Czar) was in in 1405. The reformation hadn't taken place and inquisitions was in full swing!!!

True, but the tenets of Islam are little changed to this day from the C5th. In an true Islamic state adultery, homosexuality, fornication and many other sins still exact the same punishment today as they did 1600 years ago.

There are some liberal Muslims showing face, which is nice to see.

Which face?

Best regards - HS

LittleToe

Whose face?
LOL

Do we truly have any "Christian-states" left?

Maybe dilution of anything radical is a good thing

Midget-Sasquatch

I have a similar opinion to Hillary Step's: A key difference between Christianity and Islam is how they deal with political matters. Christianity in its beginnings left them to the secular authorities and early on its followers believed that it was up to God to bring about eschatological change. It had a bearing on how Christians acted and reacted in their surroundings. Mind you that notion swung back and forth throughout history, but like Hillary Step said its been adapting along the way, mostly in favour of a more tolerable and less dogmatic stance towards unbelievers.

Islam from its inception, puts the onus on its followers to bring about the theocracy of God on to the entire world. At first, there was a need for self defense, so they engaged in battle, but that quickly changed to warring for its spread. They would also have to make the often ugly choices that authorities and states have to make under difficult situations. I think if they alter the notion of the theocracy (spiritual vs. concrete reality), or at least the extent to which they can morally bring it to others, the religion could be a very positive force. Like Little Toe pointed out, they need time.

Editted to add: I may be confusing this with another, but from what I recall the marriage of Muhammed to that girl was a way of forging ties with her father's tribe. They wanted Muhammed to take her as his wife and he held off until she was ...again IIRC...menstruating. I personally find it disturbing, but at least thats a bit more of the story.

Abaddon

throwing the baby out with the bathwater never accomplished anything, either.

Can't believe you used that tired old jade Ross! A true thought stopper. Nice.

And would people look at Christianity and Islam in context please?

Christians have enthusiastically involved themselves in the secular authorities and have resorted to threat or violence to spread their religion too. And there are Christians alive today who would happily see the introduction of the death penalty for any variety of 'offenses' such as homosexuality.

Now, you can ignore half a millenia of historical development, you can ignore the massive social divide between Christian and Muslim countries today, you can ignore the fact there are very few unique distinguishing characteristics between Christianity and Islam when you examine 'their works' in the world. Both have stunk, both have been the light of reform.

If you really want to say Christianity is better, you can ignore all that. You HAVE to ignore it to make claims of Christianity being an intrinsically better religion given a 'level playing field'.

But to do that wouldn't be very Christian now, would it?

Christianity HAD to evolve with western culture; as H_S says it's adapt or die out. Eastern cultures were stratified and had been for centuries. They, be they Islamic, Hindu or whatever, are now playing catch-up. But stick a religiously bigotted misogynist throught University and often all you will get out is a University-educated religious bigot and misogynist. Nike's and mobile phones do not 21st Century man make. We wear our culture under our skin.

Large parts of the theistic world are approaching the future in the same bewildered and resistant manner of the apocraphyl old lady who doesn't hold with flying "because if god had intended us to fly he'd have given us wings".

In time, they will get with it. Christians did, and in my experience Christians aren't any smarter than people from other religions, so just as Christianity became liberal in the 20th Century, so will Islam in the 21st, and far quicker.

;-)