My Roman Catholic Aunt has been a "devout" Catholic for over 30 years and when the Pope recently became ill she told me that God would not allow the Pope to die but would take him directly to heaven because the Pope is sinless. I am not familar with Catholic doctrines so I was caught off guard with my aunt but for any posters out there that were devout Catholics like my aunt do Catholics really believe that the Pope is without sin and cannot die?
Did you believe that the "Pope" was infalliable when you were Catholic?
by booker-t 15 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
the_classicist
I'm a Catholic now (raised JW). And NO, Catholic do not believe that. The First Vatican Coucil states that when the Pope makes a pronouncement, as Shepherd of the Universal Church on matters of faith and morals, he is infallible (he is not infallible in judicial or liturgical or any other matters). For a clear definition of papal infallibility click here. I am not aware of single Catholic that would believe that Pope John Paul II is sinless or that he would be assumed into heaven once he was dead; plus it's contrary to Catholic dogma and commonsense.
Have a good day,
The Classicist.
-
Kenneson
There have been countless popes before this one and they have all been sinners needing a Savior and they have all died. None have been assumed into heaven. It's certainly not a teaching of the Church. I don't know where she ever got that idea.
-
franklin J
my wife and her family are very liberal Catholic.
They are appalled and very critical concerning the pedophile issues; and they are outspoken about it.
They believe that the Pope is just an old man; an archaic figurehead representing ; not so much Catholics worldwide, but representing the Vatican; certainly not a connection to God.
-
Sunspot
Actually, I never gave it much thought! (when I was Catholic) I thought of him as the head of the Church (on earth) and that he was to be honored and revered because of his position.
We never had constant reminders to be obedient to what he says, or often being reminded that he was a channel-type of vessel that got directions staright from God himself.
Sermons were focused on the Christian life, and not on the idea that we needed an organization to gain God's approval. Up until I began to study with JWs, the Masses where I went were still said in Latin.
I thought that they all had changed to being said in English (here in the states) but I noticed in the paper here that there is a church in the area that still uses the Latin.
Annie
-
New Worldly Translation
There was a good documentary series about the Catholic church here in the UK called Father Ted
-
the_classicist
They had Father Ted in Canada for a while on the comedy channel it was really funny
-
Stromboli
Hi,
I come from Italy....., I wasn't raised as a Catholic but it's embeded in the culture so I can tell you that nobody here thinks that, actually I think God is having fun at keeping a frail man as a leader to show what they are like. I don't think there is any other culture that hates Catholics Priests like the Italian culture (we really know what they are like!!) I have lived abroad many years and I can tell you that only Italians have such a large number of swear words against prists and even God himself and Jesus and "La Madonna"(Mary). JWs are just nothing compared to Catholics, the atrocities and pain they are responsible for are just unmesurable.(that's why the swearing in the culture)
Popes are supposed to be the rapresentative of Jesus on earth. That's why this pope has made more saits than all other popes put together. He used to love skiing and hey the poor can wait so he just loved to get photos of himself while on the slopes... Imagine Jusus saying to the crowd "sorry guys, I'd love to stay, but I'm going skiing next week so, I've got to sort out my things out..."
They were friend with the nazi and mussolini and I'm sure you all know what they did before that and before that and before that......
I would like to say that I have nothing agaist individuals that are Catholic but I just cannot stand the institution and although I don't like WT either I think that they are saits compared to the Catholics. Also I can tell you that there are many priests in small towns that do good work regardless of the pope (because they don't agree with him BTW)
-
StinkyPantz
Wait a sec.. the Pope's not infallible?!?!?!?
-
the_classicist
They were friend with the nazi and mussolini
When Pope Pius XII (Eugenio Pacelli) was the Vatican Secretary of state he said at Lourdes that the Nazis "are in reality only miserable plagiarists who dress up old errors with new tinsel. It does not make any difference whether they flock to the banners of social revolution, whether they are guided by a false concept of the world and of life, or whether they are possessed by the superstition of a race and blood cult." (Pius XII and the Holocaust). He also was instrumental in saving many Jews in Italy from being deported to concentration by having the Vatican issue thousands of false documents that identified Jews and Christians. He also hid thousands more in churches and even in papal residences so that they would not be found by the Germans (as you must know from being Italian, the Facists in Italy were more concerned with socialists and communists than they were with persecuting Jews).
He also convinced the ruler of Hungary to stop the deportation of 800,000 Jewish people in June 1944. Certainly, there have been many people who were horrible and who were Catholics and in positions of power -- this can be seen as true in all institutions. There have been bad rulers of the Church and there have been good ones.
Your agruement is illogical and falls into the ad hominem logic error at best. (The information about Pius XII is taken from here.)