"What would happen to a jw, if proved gb was not given special authority?"

by Check_Your_Premises 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I posed this question to my tbjw (true believer Jehovah's Witness) wife:

  "What if it was proved to you without a doubt (I conceded that this was not possible) that the GB had no special mandate or guidance from HS? What if they were just like anyone else who reads the Bible alot? Would any of her beliefs change? Would she still believe there was no hell, God is not three guys, the faithful spend eternity on earth?"

  The point of my question is that the JW's claim that they only believe what they believe because it makes sense not because the gb told them to believe it. (total garbage, they believe every word the gb says!).

  That would mean it wouldn't matter, in terms of her beliefs, if the GB didn't have some magical, God given powers, powers to interpret the scriptures (They don't!). A troubling admission, though I don't think she understood the ramifications.

  Please add your thoughts or comments.
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  Satanus

  That was the conclusion to which i came while reading crisis of conscience. It was ray's description of the politicking inside the gb that convinced me of it. A person could reach the same conclusion if all the doctrinal and date changes were placed in front of them so as to clearly show the contradictions. But, maybe not, for a true believer. The reason franz' book is so effective is because of his gentlness towards the wt, his lack of hate for it. His writing style is watchtoweresque, acceptable to a jw.

  S
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  kls

  I asked my jw husband almost the exact same question and his answer was,I know they are directed by God . Then i asked him ,What if just what if they are wrong and you have believed this crap for almost 30 years? His answer was, well i would deal with it then but i know that won't happen.

  Even he knows the GB has made mistakes but say's they are just human.
  
  
  
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  Sunspot

  Because this idea is so ingrained and accepted by JWs, it is difficult to approach this reasoning with them. It's like trying to convince a nun that there is no Jesus.

  In my case, the downfall of the WTS (and the GB-which was the last to "go" in my mind) was through "smaller" events being proven. The Jimmy Swaggart case was the first thing that was proven to me and I flat out didn't believe it until I saw the online documents for myself. There WAS no explaining that and come up smelling like a rose!

  Little by little, facts like these were shown to me, but I still wasn't sure that the GB wasn't who they said they were! It was the last "belief" to go if I remember it right. It's a tough nut to crack, and maybe some "easier" things could be proven to her first....saving the best for last as it were.

  When I was having very strong doubts about the WTS, I read "Lifton's Criteria" slowly and took in everything he said, one idea at a time, and by the time I had finished reading it, my whole world and my belief system had crumbled. There WAS no denying anything any longer. I'd been HAD!

  Once you can see the other chinks in the armor, the rest fall into line. The only thing I can suggest is to ask HOW it is proven that the GB is getting "messages" from God, or HOW can they prove that the "inspection" and approval was granted to THEM? ALL being proven through the bible, of course!

  It's a major task, and I have yet to see anyone prove it!

  Annie
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  peacefulpete

  Have her read Luke 12 (faithful and wise slave)rather than the always cited Matt 24:45. Luke used this Q saying outside the apcalypic signs. He laid it along other parables that had no purport to be prophecies. The conclusion drawn by eveyone outside the WT influence is that this parable like so many others was a simple call to faithfulness. The very same slave is faced with a choice of dillegence or laziness or abusiveness and will be rewarded accordingly. The WT sqeezes from this parable a "prophecy" fortelling 2 slaves ((classes, themselves (good) and apostates (evil)) being identified by the work they do. This is reading into the text and ignoring the wording.
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  AK - Jeff

  To me - CoC was the key that unlocked the door that I had bumped against in the dark. My doubts had taken me there, but without that key unlocking the final exit, I might have stumbled around not knowing how to proceed for years to come. Ray's guts in leaving all that he and I shared in believing was the final aid I needed in nailing down my thoughts and direction.

  Later - Penton's historical insights made me able to see the organization in a historical model that made it easier to see how this whole messy organization got where it was.

  Jeff
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  AK - Jeff

  Check your Premises -

  Don Cameron's new book - Captives of a Concept might be helpful with your wife - assuming you are interested in helping her to move out of the org. There are so many simple ways in that book to set the stage for a witness to think her/his way out of the box.

  Jeff
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  jules99

  I am fairly new to all this, so I do not know the answer.

  But all I would say is DO NOT GIVE UP. Sadly my lovely new husband recently died before I could gently prise him away from 35 years of GB brainwashing. But he was starting to ask the right questions - he even wondered out loud if he might be brainwashed, and he admitted that if he was, his whole world could crumble, he wouldn't know "who he was" without the JW organisation.

  The thing that was really getting him disillusioned was the way he was treated as a disfellowshipped person, after 30 yrs loyal service as an elder. You could show your wife some of those people's stories (such as "cruzanheart" and her Dad, - on this site) and ask her if that is how "God's Organisation" would treat people.

  The only thing I would say, is that however frustrated you get with the circular arguments, try to be gentle - it's hard to find out your whole life has been a sham. Have you got any Christian friends who are not JWs who could help her to see she could still carry on being a Christian?

  I know it is difficult - GOOD LUCK

  Jules xx
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  ithinkisee

  I agree with sunspot.

  For me, I have been concocting a strategy to start breaking this news to my wife and close family members. (Big ups to this list for all your help!)

  I realize that if I start hammering at big stuff like the FDS and what a screwed up translation the NWT is, I am going to get nowhere.

  It has to be in bits and pieces - start out small and save those big things for my fatality moves (Mortal Kombat video game fans will know what I'm talking about). I was gonna start with the misquotes in the Reasoning Book on the cross (those are pretty irrefutable), the flip-flops on Sodomites. These are all things that cannot be disputed, but they also aren't central to the JW "doctrine". If I can get her to agree on those points that something is kinda fishy - then I will have considered step one a success. At that point I can let all that soak in and we can move forward (hopefully) to their deceptions in the Trinity brochure, Creation, etc. And I need to work in the occasional secular scandal like the UN, Bulgaria. . .

  Anyways, I'll start a new thread on my plans soon. I'm such a geek. . .I have it all broken down into "phases". :-)

  Let me just say one more time how I love this forum. It has given me a certain confidence in myself this time around that I never would have had otherwise.

  -ithinkisee
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  ithinkisee

  Sunspot,

  Are those Jimmy Swaggart documents still available anywhere online?

  -ithinkisee