Growing Old and Dying on the Paradise Earth

by Leolaia 32 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  ithinkisee

  In dubspeak, the seas (like Soylent Green) are PEOPLE ...

  -ithinkisee
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  peacefulpete

  bttt
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  gumby

  Another great piece of work Leolaia

  Remember the picture in the Revelation Book of all the rebels that were surrounding a minority of faithful dubs when Satan is loosed and gains many converts from dubville? This pic represented how at the end of the thousand years when Satan is let loose the MAJORITY will follow him. These rebels were camped around the holy ones in the center of the pic who looked like like helpless sheep.

  Funny.....in Leolaia's watchtower quote it was pointed out how it would be a RARE event should one of Jehovahs people rebel even though 100 years of age and that Jehovah would take his life.......yet it's not a RARE event for the majority to follow Satan after he is loosed .My how they are weak.

  So the question is.....how strong is a dubs integrity after living a 1000 years in bliss in that they go to the darkside so easily led by Satan ( in a very short time according to the society)....and if this is so, then why is it a RARE event for one to fall DURING the 1000 year reign?

  Apparently.....Satan wins the popularity contest once again and Jehovah loses.

  Gumgambleronsatan
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  jwfacts

  Good work Leo, i have been wanting to research further into why the majority religions recognise the OT references to paradise as being prophetic of ancient Israel, and not to the future.

  A question I have been meaning to ask. Nark, Leo etc go very indepth into etymology, whether or not it should be interpretted from the Greek or Aramaic and so forth.

  Do you think the WTS actually goes that deep into their doctrine?

  All Watchtower publications are very simplistic in the way they arrive at and present doctrine, hence the incredible amount of unique doctrine they present that is without any foundation. There are no publications that ever go into the depth of doctrine as presented on this board and by other religions. I get the feeling that Rutherford and Franz used an Eisegisis approach to inventing most of their doctrines simply based on English translations. It is only when they then try to support these doctrines that they occasionally look for Greek arguments to back up the conclusions that they had already arrived at.
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  Leolaia

  jwfacts....I think a most splendid example of eisegesis here is the Society's interpretation of Isaiah 65:20c which imposes on the text a concept of death-as-punishment-for-rebellion, which is totally foreign to the context. While translating the relevant Hebrew word as "sinner" is the launching pad for such a reading (and as I pointed out, this itself is an unlikely translation), the published interpretation far exceeds even what is in the NWT version on several grounds.

  gumby....And as you bring out, the Society connects this to the Gog and Magog passages of Revelation on very arbitrary grounds and also in that text their interpretation is eisegetical, i.e. where in Revelation is Satan's loosing described as a "test", and where is the evidence that the ones led to attack are Armageddon survivors who "turn bad"? Then again, virtually the entire interpretation of Revelation is eisegetical, so that is neither here nor there.
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  gumby

  i.e. where in Revelation is Satan's loosing described as a "test", and where is the evidence that the ones led to attack are Armageddon survivors who "turn bad"?

  The society explains it this way,

  At the end of the 1000 year reign, all mankind will be in a perfect state as was Adan and Eve were before they sinned. The earth will have been transformed into a paradise. Jesus then hands over the kingdom to his father. Satan is then let lose.

  Rev 20:7-9 says Satan (doesn't mention he has helpers) then covers the surface of the earth and in some way influences ones in the amount of the sands of the sea (un-numbered amount).

  He succeds in gainning quite a number and these ones try and undo theocratic arrangement....but then fire comes down from jehovah and annihilates the bastards.

  Like all writings from Freddie Franz...it's a pipe dream.

  No mention is made of demon helpers in the attack in Revelations, no comment as to HOW Satan misleads these ones( porno, booze, money, a kingdom, power). How does Satan do it? Whisper, control their minds? The claim is made this heresy only lasts a short time, so evidently Satan is a quick worker.

  And how is it these rebels come upon a "camp"? What camp? The society explanation is that it is witnesses spread abroad the earth....yet the picture shows it to be a location so to speak? Where is the city these rebels also attack? The society says they don't really attack the city, they attack the camp....but Revelation says different.

  Evidently there will little small fires from heaven right on thru the 1000 year reign as Jehovah sends fire upon those a hundred years of age who sin in the new system, and upon rebels scattered about the earth trying to undo theocracy when Satan is realeased.

  .....and we believed this stuff.......or did we REALLY?

  Gumby
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  fullofdoubtnow

  .....and we believed this stuff.......or did we REALLY?

  I did, I swallowed it hook, line and sinker, yet looking at it now, it seems so ludicrous, a complete fairytale. I don't believe any of it now.
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  Fleshybirdfodder

  Ha Gumby! I remember actually being afraid of that second judgement one thousand plus years in the future!

  FBF
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  gumby

  .....and we believed this stuff.......or did we REALLY?

  I did, I swallowed it hook, line and sinker, yet looking at it now, it seems so ludicrous, a complete fairytale. I don't believe any of it now.

  Fullofdoubtnow...I know where you are coming from...I also believed it all....but I wonder something. How much of a REALITY was it really deep in our minds? Did we believe it as strongly as we believed the sun would rise tomarrow? If so...why do witnesses grieve so hard when they lose a loved one? Do they REALLY believe they will be back very soon? If so...why grieve so hard? My point is...we think we believed everything....but how strong deep within? Gumby
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  Forscher

  Just for a comparison for those who might be interested in it here is how Russell saw it from chapter eight of the divine Plan
  

  This coming judgment will be on exactly the same principles as the first. The same law of obedience will be presented, with the same reward of life, and the same penalty of death. And as the first trial had a beginning, progressed, and culminated with a sentence, so also will the second; and the sentence will be life to the righteous, and death to the unrighteous. The second trial will be more favorable than the first, because of the experience gained under the results of the first trial. Unlike the first trial, the second trial will be one in which every man will stand the test for himself alone, and not for another. None will then die because of Adam's sin, or because of inherited imperfections. It shall no more be said, "The fathers have eaten a sour grape and the children's teeth are set on edge; but he that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge." "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." (Ezek. 18:4; Jer. 31:29,30) And it will be true of the world then, as it is of the Church now, that a man will not be judged according to that which he hath not, but according to that which he hath. (2 Cor. 8:12) Under the reign of Christ, mankind will be gradually educated, trained and disciplined until they reach perfection. And when they have reached perfection, perfect harmony with God will be required, and any who then fall short of perfect obedience will be cut off, being judged unworthy of life. The sin which brought death to the race through Adam was simply one disobedient act; but by that act he fell from <144> his perfection. God had a right to demand perfect obedience of him, since he was created perfect; and he will demand the same of all men when the great work of restoring them is complete. None will be permitted to have everlasting life who then in the slightest degree fall short of perfection. To fall short of perfection, then, will be to sin wilfully against full light and perfect ability.
  
  Any who sin wilfully, against full light and ability, will perish in the second death. And should any one, during that age of trial, under its full blaze of light, spurn the offered favors, and make no progress toward perfection for a hundred years, he will be reckoned unworthy of life and will be "cut off," though at a hundred years he would be in the period of comparative childhood. Thus it is written of that day: "As a lad shall one die a hundred years old; and as a sinner shall be accursed he who dieth at a hundred years old." (Isa. 65:20--Leeser) Thus all must have at least one hundred years of trial; and, if not so obstinate as to refuse to make progress, their trial will continue throughout the entire day of Christ, reaching a culmination only at its close.

  
  Forscher