Lodging: The Gazite Way

by _Atlas 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  _Atlas

  Recently I had a conversation about Samson and the bible passage where he "comes into" (NWT) a prostitute.

  A JW came back with info on the topic such as:

  On ?Insight the scriptures? under Hospitality:

  The WT implies that prostitutes diversified their business by using their homes as guesthouses and sex was only optional.

  Under Samson:

  It is argued that since Samson continued delivering amazing acts he was therefore cleared of misconduct and this means he did not engage in immoral acts with the prostitute. Out comes the translator that also believes so. This man argues that Samson knew he would find lodging from that kind of woman. (P. Schaff, 1976) Also it is pointed that the account does not says that he woke up with her at midnight it only says he woke up. Ergo he slept alone!!!

  Somewhere else that wasn?t specified:

  They say (I do not own a WT CD so if any researcher may please quote them on all this) that since the Gazites may felt sure they will caught him in the morning since he was indulging himself in carnal sin, and somehow decided to wait ?til then, then this was kind of a war strategy to allow time to escape and fool Samson's enemies. Do the old world ?Geneva Convention? allows a minimum waiting time after sex for enemies?

  I can almost hear them saying: "Are you guys stupid or what? Did you ever thought Samson would commit such a sin? Do you now see why you guys need us to interpret every single thing on the Bible? Forget about reading the Bible, you can?t just get it right?"
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  peacefulpete

  Hey Atlas do a little research on the solar elements in the Samson story. The very name means 'sun'. long hair, foxes and fire,and the city gate story aswell as other details reveal that this was a simple solar god legend that was recaste as aJewish hero. Hercules likewise was grafted to solar motifs and his exploits in many ways mirror Samsons. The prostitute is likely a remnant of this as well, Many solar deities were known for their lustfulness. As I recall in an early solar god legend it was even a female that defeats him by nagging and cutting the hair which symbolized the suns rays (ie.power).
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  Leolaia

  Not to mention as well that the tribe of Dan was likely of Greek origin (cf. the Danaeans, Danaus son of Baal/Belus in Greek mythology, the Dnyn Sea-People attested in Egyptian records, and biblical evidence that Dan originally did not belong to the Israelite confederation, such as Genesis 49:16, Judges 18:1, and the lack of geneological lists for Dan). This puts the Danites into the same category as the Philistines, the most well-known of the Greek-speaking Sea Peoples. Judges 5:17, a genuinely archaic text, also implies that Dan was a Sea People like the coastal Philistines. Moreover, Samson had more in common with the Philistines than with the Israelites; his first wife was a Philistine (Judges 14:1), he was affiliated with a prostitute in Gaza (16:1), and Delilah of course was a confidante of the Philistines. As for the solar elements, we have not just the aforementioned name of Samson, but also the PNs of Ir Shemesh and Har Heres, and various motifs in the Samson story (great strength, riddle solving, etc.) that are shared with other Greek solar heroes. Although Heracles and Mopsus have the greatest similarity to Samson, don't forget that the sun hero Perseus was specifically located in Jaffa in the story about rescuing Andromeda ('nt rmt "Queen Anat") from the sea monster. Egyptian records also place the Dnyn on the coast of Jaffa. It is thus possible that the Danites had in their heroic tradition a cycle of legends about a solar hero cognate with Perseus. The Danaeans living in Cilicia in Syria and Asia Minor similarly looked to Mopsus as their founder, and called their line the "House of Mopsus" (cf. the "House of David" in the case of Judah).
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  euripides

  the Greek-speaking Sea Peoples

  Leolaia, I was unaware it was a settled issue that the Philistines were Greek speaking although I understand many scholars surmise their origin in Anatolia; the Philistine words that do show up in the Hebrew text are clearly not Semitic and reasonably construed to be Indo-European, such as seren, for captain, or qoba, the military headgear. Their arrival in the region in as early as 1200 BCE would probably put them before certainly what we would understand to be any of the extant forms of ancient Greek, no? This is a minor point, I know, but we're all friends here

  Euripides
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  Leolaia

  I was thinking of Mycenaean Greek (which dates back to LB and Iron I), but you are right that it could include other related Indo-European languages spoken in the Aegean and Anatolia, so "Greek-speaking" is a bit too narrow.... The Mycenaean connection is stronger in the case of Danaeans, especially with respect to the Danaean hero Perseus who is associated with both Jaffa and Mycenae in Greek tradition (such as Pausanius, who derived the name of Mycenae from the mukés "mushrooms" that hydrated Perseus). Moreover, the Tale of Wen-Amun placed the Tjeker at Dor and the Philistines were further south, with the area in between around Jaffa being the most likely location of Danuna settlement.
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  _Atlas

  Peacefulpete:

  Thanks for the references. I?m fairly new at all this and it is obvious that I got a lot of research to do on sources. Thanks for the lead I?ll make sure I?ll pursuit it.

  Leolaia:

  I see your legend is well deserved. Thanks for the references? I sure got a long way to go. (I really resent you bringing up that guy Perseus in the conversation. I got some unfinished business with him. He will meet the new Atlas someday LOL) Can you (or Peacefulpete) PM or post here a brief summary that leads me to other borrowed stories that permeated into the Bible? It will sure help me in the long run.?

  Everyone:

  How about the WT?s efforts to pave a road over the obvious reference to Samson ?going into? a prostitute? Is there any other evidence that lead them to this conclusion?

  Atlas
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  Leolaia

  Can you (or Peacefulpete) PM or post here a brief summary that leads me to other borrowed stories that permeated into the Bible?

  Atlas...sure, from just my own posts:

  On the indebtedness of Jewish Enochic tradition on Mesopotamian models:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/67655/1.ashx

  On Gilgamesh as being one of the Nephilim:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/69401/1.ashx

  On the origin of the biblical stories of the Nephilim, Rephaim, and the Canaanite allusions to the Didanites:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/68224/1.ashx

  On how stories about the Rephaim and Nephilim may have been inspired by Neolithic and megalithic relics:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/71735/1.ashx

  On direct allusions to the Canaanite Aqhat legend in the OT, as well as verbal parallels with it:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/67904/1.ashx

  On the discovery of an Aramaic story about Balaam son of Beor that is older than the biblical story:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/68919/1.ashx

  On how the story of the Garden of Eden and Eve may reflect Canaanite myth and the Judean Asherah cult:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/73244/1.ashx
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  peacefulpete

  I have in the past espoused numerous connections that I picked up from reading older books such as Bible Myths and their parallels in other religions by TW Doane and Higgin's Anacalypsis. I have since learned that some of these parallels were arrived at though poor translating and some misguided scholarship from their predecessors. However I still enjoy Doane's book and if I find something interesting I do furthur research to confirm. Tim Callahan wrote a book a few years ago called Secret Origins of the Bible. Tim is truly an interesting fella. He stands thin and short with misfitting glasses and sweater vest. He's a real nerd but a real nice guy. I disagree with him at points (as I'm a bit more radical ) but his book would be a nice introduction to the study. There are a few here that are years ahead of me in this research and have been kind to share.