Scriptural basis for "judicial committee"'s?

by AlmostAtheist 12 Replies latest jw friends

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  AlmostAtheist

  JW's at least *try* to have scriptural backing for all their little doctrines. It may only be two obscure references to two cultures a thousand years apart celebrating a birthday, but at least they've got *something*.

  Have you ever known them to pony up any sort of Biblical reference to justify the formation of a "judicial committee"? I know they have their pet shunning scriptures, but that's after the committee meets and decides to axe you. Do they have any "proof" (and I use the word in the loosest possible sense) that their practice of forming JC's is scriptural?

  Thanks for any info,

  Dave
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  Valis

  *** Insight on the Scriptures Volume 1 p.475 City ***

  On entering the gates, one found himself in a large open place, the city's marketplace, the public square, where all kinds of selling and buying were carried on, and where contracts were made and sealed before witnesses. (Ge 23:10-18; 2Ki 7:1; Na 2:4) Here was the public forum where news was received and passed on (Ne 8:1, 3; Jer 17:19), where the elders held court (Ru 4:1-10), and where the traveler might spend the night if perchance private hospitality was not extended to him.

  [Emphasis Added]

  *** Insight on the Scriptures Volume 1 p.198 Assembly ***

  At times, the people of Israel were represented in gatherings by "chieftains of the assembly" (Ex 16:22; Nu 4:34; 31:13; 32:2; Jos 9:15, 18; 22:30), or "older men." (Ex 12:21; 17:5; 24:1) When judicial matters required attention, a number of persons might assemble at the city gate. However, whether gathered there or elsewhere, they would not all vote on the case under consideration in a democratic fashion. Instead, theocratically, respected older men would weigh matters in the light of God's law and then announce their decision. (De 16:18; 17:8-13) Similarly, the early Christian congregation was represented in such matters by those placed in positions of responsibility by the holy spirit. (Ac 20:28) In Israel, if the wrongdoing required the death sentence, the whole assembly might execute it.?Le 24:14; Nu 15:32-36; De 21:18-21.

  [Emphasis Added]

  *** Watchtower 1976 December 1 p.732 Giving Reproof "Before All Onlookers" ***

  The Bible regulations and accounts indicate that cases of wrongdoing came before the city elders at the gates primarily when controversies were involved, as in cases where an offender would not acknowledge having wronged another, and also when the community as a whole was seriously affected or endangered by the wrongdoing.

  [Emphasis Added]

  *** Watchtower 1995 November 15 p.13 Cities of Refuge-God's Merciful Provision ***

  Though you were received hospitably, you would have to state your case to the elders at the gate of the refuge city. After entering the city, you would be sent back to stand trial before the elders representing the congregation of Israel at the gates of the city having jurisdiction over the area where the killing occurred. There you would have an opportunity to prove your innocence.

  [Emphasis Added]

  *** Watchtower 1980 March 15 p.30 Why Look to Jehovah in All You Undertake? ***

  Since the city elders judged in the open area near the gates, it would be there that the sons would speak with opponents in a legal case, successfully putting to silence baseless accusations and false testimony.

  [Emphasis Added]

  *** Reference Bible John 3:19-21 ***

  Now this is the basis for judgment, that the light has come into the world but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. 20 For he that practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, in order that his works may not be reproved. 21 But he that does what is true comes to the light, in order that his works may be made manifest as having been worked in harmony with God.

  [Emphasis Added]

  *** Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock (book) Unit 5(b) p.110 ***

  [This book is available only to active elders]

  If the accused wishes to bring witnesses who can speak in his defense regarding the matter, he may do so.

  However, observers are not permitted.

  No tape-recording devices are allowed.
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  Similarly, the early Christian congregation was represented in such matters by those placed in positions of responsibility by the holy spirit. (Ac 20:28)

  A casual read of that sentence would tell you that if you looked up Acts 20:28, you would find a verse that supports the comment made. But of course, you don't. The scripture says: "Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed YOU overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own [Son]. "

  It doesn't support the point made at all. Even when I was a faithful dub, that used to bother me. I saw time and again where they would say something like, "Just as Jehovah created the universe, so the faithful and discreet slave is leading his human creation today (Gen 1:1)" And if you bothered to check the reference, you realized the point that actually needed substantiated was not covered by the verse.

  So why did I continue to buy it? :-(

  Thanks for those references, Valis. It shows how hard they work to support their twisted view of things.

  Dave
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  onacruse

  There were no "committees" in the WTS until the late 30s; all punitive actions were undertaken by a full congregation hearing, with open testimony, and an open vote of all members. Comparable, in many respects, to the Jewish procedures that Valis posted above.

  As Rutherford tightened his grip on the little folk, he eliminated the "elders" carte blanche (1938), and the "service committee" of 3 Brooklyn-appointed was instituted. These became the arbiters of congregational justice, answerable only to Brooklyn.

  When the "elder" arrangement was reinstated in the early 70s, at least one holdover remained: the judicial committee.

  How convenient those Star Chamber sessions are, especially when it comes to keeping the peons in line.
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Valis - Good work on the references!

  No wonder that one comment was made on this board about a visitor to a Kingdom Hall that asked if these people think they are decendants of the Jews. But if one is desirous of promoting a legalistic society, and basing it on the Bible as reference, it would make sense to defer to the OT and it's law-driven approach.

  But the point remains - that even if the Jewish practices under the law were the correct basis for Christian custom and organization - the WTS does not do it at all like the Jewish nation did it.

  And as Almost points out; there is simply not a single NT reference that would support anything of the sort.

  Using Acts 20:28 to support judicial committee's is tantamount to using John 17:3 to support the idea that 'knowledge that leads to everlasting life' comes out of the WTS.

  Oops! They do twist interpret it that way, don't they? Silly me!

  Just My opinion

  Jeff
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  Maverick

  What I find interesting is that the WTS use the City Gate line of reasoning for their JC. But these were held in public. The JC today is held in private and the victim can't even hear the testimony of other Witnesses. The WTS claim that this is to protect the privacy of those involved, but we all know how fast that information makes the gossip rounds!

  My feeling is that if the Elders grab a person and, "ask" them to come in the back room that this person stand their ground the tell the JC to meet them right here in full view of everyone and not hide like the cowards they are in some back room where no one can see what they are up to. Let the cong. see for themselves what goes on behind closed doors.
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  blondie

  Today's Bible Student groups still conduct investigations and hearings into serious sins with the full congregation involved and voting on the decision. I asked if it was a secret or public ballot and found that it depends on the individual congregation or group.
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  Neo

  They are exposed by their own words! That's what they said about Israel's legal system:

  *** g81 1/22 p. 17 Searching Out Legal Roots ***

  Since the local court was situated at the city gates, there was no question about the trial being public! (Deut. 16:18-20) No doubt the public trials helped influence the judges toward carefulness and justice, qualities that sometimes vanish in secret star-chamber hearings.

  Neo
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  AlmostAtheist

  No doubt the public trials helped influence the judges toward carefulness and justice, qualities that sometimes vanish in secret star-chamber hearings.

  This is why I can't believe they are truly intentionally a cult. They print stuff like this! Why on earth would they print something like this, knowing they do the same things themselves?!? One reasonable explanation is that even the guys at the top (or near the top, the writers) are themselves fully deluded and can't see how pot-like they are as they run around pointing out the blackness of various kettles.

  Dave
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  czarofmischief

  I get the understanding that there are two factions inside of Bethel, one more liberal than the other. Of course, in the early 80's, the hardliners, headed up by Schroeder and Jaracz, gained near absolute power by purging the liberal Ray Franz. Until then, you might very well get two opposite viewpoints in the WT. Poor Freddie was too old and powerless to stop them.

  That's the general impression I get from CoC and observations by folks on this board.

  CZAR