Rockhound - that was interesting information - thanks very much for posting it.
FDS - you seem to be speaking out of both sides of your mouth when you say...
do you ever look into the mirror and wonder how many of those you personally lead to the organization have let themselves of their children DIE because the organization said so?
Every person is different but if someone tried to sit down with you and show you these things while you were on fire for the organization would you have listened? As for dates, that is EASY, anyone could have read up on the Watchtower prior to joining. Kingdom of the cults comes to MIND and that has been out long. Specifically one could even gets hints of this in the Watchtower and their books but if one really took the time to check into all this then maybe just maybe they would have not joined but I know a few right now who already are showing the JW mind-set and they are not baptized. Truth is an active JW does not let old light bother him much, there are countless thousands who went through 75 yet "wait upon Jehovah" to clear matters up (they will be waiting a long time). I believe every witness has "heard" of past failures unless you were not one to knock on many doors....
So you are asking Rockhound to have a guilt trip over all the people he brought into this cult who physically lost their lives because of it. How can you assume he brought anybody into it? And if he did, then according to the second statement above, they should have checked it out themselves and Rockhound isn't the guilty one, but the deceived individual himself is. Pick a side.
Also,
I find it amazing that one who spent fourty years going door to door let something so trivial as the 1975 thing break your faith. Let's be honest for a moment, certainly you must of had issues prior to the 1975 failure? Could it really have just been a nail in the coffin so to speak? I question this because the 1975 thing was not that big a deal, well anymore than 1925, 1918, 1916 and 1914 had been.
Who are you to decide when Rockhound should have started smelling a rat and what should have made him think it was time to re-examine his beliefs? From my own personal experiences, I had questions which I just swallowed and didn't think about for a long time, much less do anything about them. And how would you know what effect 1975 had on Rockhound personally? Maybe he put off important decisions and missed opportunities he later regretted. When you get out and realize it's all crap, that could hit you kind of hard.
And, 1975 was not a big deal? From the quotes I have read from the Watchtower's publications about it, I can see how a person who fully trusts the Watchtower in everything could believe it.
So sit here on a WWW site and tell the world how many wasted years you had as one of Jehovah's servants, whos fault was that Rock? You might have not had any sharks but perhaps thousands of gupies nipping at your heels to have got some idea that something was wrong.
I think the point Rockhound was making was why did it take him so long to figure it out. Why are you so relentless in attacking him for not seeing it earlier? I hardly think a person with your attitude could be very good at helping anyone out of a cult.
A cult. This too is very subjective and depends on who is making the claim. Many Fundemental Christians can be labeled as a "cult" and in fact many who claim to have the "truth" do this very thing. You don't believe in the body of Jesus raising from the dead? You're a "cult" No Trinity? Cult. Cult becomes a free for all based on IF one disagrees with the speaker's beliefs. Many religions claim to be the truth, many ex JWs now claim to have found the "truth" in another reiglion based upon the Watchtower and it's mistakes. Again, just because the organization has made some false statements does not make another religion's teachings right.
I agree it's difficult to determine if a group really fits into the definition of a cult, and that the term is used by different cults against other cults to keep their believers from defecting to another cult. I think it's safe to say Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult, based on a few characteristics that they meet full-on...
1. The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
2. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
3. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
4. The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel.
5. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members.
6. The group has a polarized us- versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.
7. The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.
8. Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.
9. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
10. Members are encouraged or required to socialize only with other group members.
FDS also said...
I did not say that the Watchtower as a GROUP has not praticed lies. They must for the better of the flock.
For the betterment of the flock, or for the protection of their own authority?
Better ask yourself this, "What am I doing to help those I personally mislead into the organization"?
I cannot help but feel revolted by your thinly veiled contempt in this question. Besides the fact it almost sounds like a Watchtower "how can I do more to reach those in my neighborhood/job/school?" or some shit.
You may be riding high about how much you are "doing" to personally help others, but it's rather difficult to believe if that's really what you are about you would come out here and try to bring others down this way. Rockhound is doing fine by investing his time on this discussion board. If he finds an opportunity to help someone "personally" I have no doubt he will take it.
