by ithinkisee 46 Replies latest jw friends
some lawyers ignore that obligation
Some? I've worked with lawyers for over 25 years; from independant to partners in huge San Francisco and New York firms. I have *never* met one who did not know how to turn a lie into a truth in a court case. Sorry, but gotta disagree on the 'some' part.
J
Beanie: The U.S. has about 1 million lawyers - you've worked with how many? And, based on your experience you infer a conclusion about most or all of them?
Also, in what capacity have you worked with lawyers? A secretary? A paralegal? A lawyer? If you found them so dishonest, why did you stay in their company?
my last post was for jeanie - not beanie - lol
Now you're getting somewhere! The Society's achilles heel is the fact that not everyone in this organization can be
a brainless zombie. In order to survive, they MUST have competent lawyers, accountants, graphic arts people and so on.
The problem is that these people they need MUST also have critical thinking skill - which are inherently incompatible
with being a Witness.
As for their lawyers, there are ways they can 'help' these guys - with discreet loans, partnerships, and other quiet fringe
benefits. I've argued that the Society actually might be blackmailed by them in various ways - because they have so much
vital info in their possession.
metatron
"Your honor I object!"
"And why's that Mr. Reed?"
"Because it's devestating to my case."
"Over-ruled."
"Good call." Jim Carey w/Judge (Liar Liar)
u/d (of the that's only something ugly people say to make themselves feel better class)
See the Sky.
Beanie: The U.S. has about 1 million lawyers - you've worked with how many? And, based on your experience you infer a conclusion about most or all of them?
I have to ask this. If one cannot trust the opinion of Jeannie regarding lawyers because according to you her expereince of dealing with lawyers is very limited, how can we trust your own view. Or is it unlimited?
Also, the ethical obligations for lawyers require complete honesty. Although some lawyers ignore that obligation, and although the media (hollywood mainly) has often used the stereotype of a lying lawyer ad naseum, most lawyers I know adhere to the obligation of honesty.
I have worked around numerous lawyers for more than three decades in all sorts of projects. I have yet to meet one who did not function on a heavy diet of Machiavellian principles. When they were were working for me I was pleased with their 'flexible' ethics, when working against me I was not.
HS
Its a dirty job but somebody needs to do it....dont know how a lawyer could be bankrupt from dealing with them though...they have plenty of money from peddling books door to door dont they?....or am i talking about Encyclopaedia Britanica?
Any lawyer who bankrupts themselves doing the work must be daft...or not charging enough...
HILLARY: "I have to ask this. If one cannot trust the opinion of Jeannie regarding lawyers because according to you her expereince of dealing with lawyers is very limited, how can we trust your own view. Or is it unlimited?
. . .I have worked around numerous lawyers for more than three decades in all sorts of projects. I have yet to meet one who did not function on a heavy diet of Machiavellian principles. When they were were working for me I was pleased with their 'flexible' ethics, when working against me I was not."
Jeannie based a broad conclusion on a limited sample. For the record, I have not yet committed this error in logic insofar as this post goes. Initially, I used the word "some" in reference to lawyers with questionable honesty.
Thereafter, in writing about the honesty of lawyers, I wrote, "most lawyers I know adhere to the obligation of honesty." Note, I again limited my knowledge to lawyers whom I know personally.
Hillary, it sounds as though you have interacted with unethical lawyers. To offer a thoughtful opinion on this, however, I would need more details, e.g., what constitutes "flexible ethics."
Also, it might help to clarify terms here. For instance, we should distinguish professional ethics from ethics generally and especially from morals. Indeed, professional ethics can often contradict ethical conduct (in the general sense) and morality as well.
I know that there are plenty of ethical lawyers around, but their profession demands that they sometimes set aside ethics in order to get their client off, even though he's guilty.
Why do you think most politicians are lawyers?
AlanF
SeeTheSky,
Why would lawyers lie in court on cases where they represent someone or some entity? Lawyers, usually, would not testify in such circumstances - in fact, that could disqualify a lawyer from a case. Also, the ethical obligations for lawyers require complete honesty. Although some lawyers ignore that obligation, and although the media (hollywood mainly) has often used the stereotype of a lying lawyer ad naseum, most lawyers I know adhere to the obligation of honesty.
You cannot seem to understand your own posts. Jeannie has made a similarly sweeping statement as yourself but from an opposite vantage and yet you take exception to hers. I am questioning your sweeping statement as you questioned hers.
From the experiences in this thread so far, it would seem that your expressed viewpoint is challenged by the collective experiences of others. I am not going to fall into a game of semantics with you as you know very well what my point is.
AlanF,
I know that there are plenty of ethical lawyers around, but their profession demands that they sometimes set aside ethics in order to get their client off, even though he's guilty.
Why do you think most politicians are lawyers?
Exactly. Every lawyer, even those dealing with the low level day to day duties gets plenty of practice in the art of backroom politics dealing with their own partners, let alone the opposition in a court of Law.
The best lawyers make the best politicians, it is a natural development of their trade that they should. As I say, I choose only the most cunning and devious lawyers to work for me, those very few still in their first year in practice and wrestling with ethical dilemmas are of no use to me.
Best regards - HS
