Have You Ever Asked An Elder "How and when did the WTBS determined they were the faithful discreet slave?" No, because I believe they never did make such a determination but if you are prepared to disarm the question by rephrasing it , I'll think about it.
Have you ever asked an elder...
by homme perdu 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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FDS
Dos,
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Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life book
Chap: 17
THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE
3 Relief supplies are generally dispensed through an organized channel, and Jehovah has similarly made spiritual provision for his people. For example, the Israelites were "Jehovah?s congregation" for some 1,500 years. Among them were those who served as God?s channel to teach his law. (1 Chronicles 28:8; 2 Chronicles 17:7-9) In the first century C. E., Jehovah brought forth the Christian organization. Congregations were formed, and they functioned under the direction of a governing body made up of apostles and older men. (Acts 15:22-31) likewise today, Jehovah deals with his people through an organized body. How do we know this? 4 Jesus said that at the time of his presence in Kingdom power, "the faithful and discreet slave" would be found providing "food at the proper time" for His followers. (Matthew 24:45-47) When Jesus was installed as heavenly King in 1914, who did this "slave" prove to be? Certainly not the clergy of Christendom. For the most part, they were feeding their flocks propaganda that backed up their own national governments in World War I. But proper and timely spiritual food was being dispensed by the group of true Christians who were anointed by God?s holy spirit and were a part of what Jesus called the "little flock." (Luke 12:32) These anointed Christians preached God?s kingdom rather than man?s governments. As a result, over the years millions of righteously disposed "other sheep" have joined the anointed "slave" in practicing true religion. (John:10:16) Using the "faithful slave" and it?s present-day Governing Body, God directs his organized people to make spiritual food, clothing, and shelter available to all who wish to have these provisions.Dos, is this clear enough for you? If not I have many other quotes that "prove" beyond all doubt that they do...
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FDS
Or one more from a book we all know and loved
"You can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth" page 193
"...On his return in Kingdom power in the year 1914, did Christ find a "faithful and discreet slave" class providing spiritual "food," or information? Yes, he found such a "slave" made up of the remaining ones on earth of his 144,000 brothers. (Rev 12:10; 14:1, 3) And since 1914 millions of persons have accepted the "food" they provide, and have begun practicing true religion along with them. This organization of God?s servants is known as Jehovah?s Witnesses..."
FDS
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IP_SEC
*** ip-2 chap. 6 p. 86 Jehovah?"A Righteous God and a Savior" ***
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Since 1919 when "the Israel of God" was released from spiritual captivity, Isaiah?s words have had a greater fulfillment than in Cyrus? day. Millions earth wide show a willingness to serve Jehovah
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ip-2 chap. 13 pp. 189-190 "Cry Out Joyfully in Unison"! ***17
In the modern-day fulfillment, the watchman class, "the faithful and discreet slave," raises its voice not just to the ones who are already in God?s visible organization but also to outsiders. (Matthew 24:45-47) A call went out to gather in the remaining ones of the anointed in 1919, and in 1922 the call was intensified at the Cedar Point, Ohio, convention with the appeal to "advertise, advertise, advertise, the King and his kingdom.***
ip-2 chap. 27 p. 400 Jehovah Blesses Pure Worship ***19
Spiritual Israel too was blessed with abundant nourishment after the restoration in 1919. Since then the flow of spiritual food dispensed through "the faithful and discreet slave" has been steady. (Matthew 24:45-47) This has indeed been a time of consolation and joy for the anointed remnant. But there have been further blessings.***
ip-1 chap. 18 p. 242 Lessons About Unfaithfulness ***the Creator by amassing riches and power for themselves. Hence, when the time of judgment "to start with the house of God" came in 1918, Jehovah removed Christendom. Another steward was identified?"the faithful steward, the discreet one"?and appointed over Jesus? earthly household.
*** jv chap. 15 p. 219 Development of the Organization Structure ***
Since the visible agency that would be used by Christ is the faithful and discreet slave (and the facts of modern-day history already considered show that this "slave" employs the Watch Tower Society as a legal instrument),
*** re chap. 12 p. 63 "Keep On Holding Fast What You Have" ***
18 In 1919 Jesus fulfilled his promise and recognized the small band of genuine anointed Christians as his "faithful and discreet slave."
*** re chap. 30 p. 209 "Babylon the Great Has Fallen!" ***
They were the modern "faithful and discreet slave," and the Master appointed them over all his belongings on earth. (Matthew 24:45-47) Their being used in this way proved that Jehovah had utterly rejected Christendom despite her claim to be his representative on earth.
*** re chap. 36 p. 260 The Great City Devastated ***
7 True, Babylon the Great was not destroyed in 1919?any more than the ancient city Babylon was destroyed in 539 B.C.E. when it fell to the armies of Cyrus the Persian. But from Jehovah?s viewpoint, that organization had fallen. She was judicially condemned, awaiting execution; therefore, false religion could no longer hold Jehovah?s people in captivity. (Compare Luke 9:59, 60.) These were released to serve as the Master?s faithful and discreet slave in providing spiritual food at the proper time. They had received a judgment of "Well done" and were commissioned to get busy again in Jehovah?s work.
Hey, well firstly as you can see from the last couple of quotes here they believe that since christendom and the nations havent been able to stop their work and because they make proclaimations against so called false religion, this is evidence of god's choosing them as the FDS. The major claim to this is that they were released from prison in 1918.
This is not proof though. They can say we are the FDS all day long and that dont make it so. They use to say 'since we are growing this is clear (loaded) evidence of being gods chosen' That isnt evidence of any thing, NATO is growing, the UN is growing, Mormonism is growing. That dont prove diddly.
Now the org is shrinking, its in negative growth, and thats proof that we are at the end of the last day. Crap man these guys got an answer for everything.
Secondly, if a person carefully reads the FDS parable, they will see that the slave isnt faithful and discreet until the master arrives and pronounces him such. Now read the context very carefully, when is the masters arrival? At the beginning of a Parosia 1914? 1918? NOPE, the context is the day or the hour that no one knows. It is the second coming, when Christ comes as judge. The big A. Therefore there is no way the FDS could have been identified since 1919. Christ hasnt named/proclaimed him/her/it. The WT plucks this verse right outa context and applies their own date to it. Yes they do! Right out of context! I humbly invite any apologist to debate this fact.
All you witnesses had better stop thinking of bible verses as being stand alone proofs. You must understand context. Who was speaking? Who was being spoken to? Why? Just because someguys up in brooklyn call themselves the FDS dont make it so.
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FDS
"All you witnesses had better stop thinking of bible verses as being stand alone proofs. You must understand context. Who was speaking? Who was being spoken to? Why? Just because someguys up in brooklyn call themselves the FDS dont make it so."
I think us "thinking bros" know that the organization only CLAIMS to be the Faithful Slave, not that they are REALLY the "Slave".
But that does bring other interesting questions to mind, who says that this is even talking about what everyone has claimed? We know here by context that Jesus refers to his followers as a "whole". Funny Russell said that he did not see two classes of people in God's kingdom yet the Watchtower certainly has a "clergy and laity" class today, the clergy being the 144,000 and other sheep of earth bound wanna bees (Laity).......Yikes
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AK - Jeff
jv chap. 15 p. 219 Development of the Organization Structure
Since the visible agency that would be used by Christ is the faithful and discreet slave (and the facts of modern-day history already considered show that this "slave" employs the Watch Tower Society as a legal instrument), The Watchtower explained that theocratic procedure would require that appointments of service be made through this agency. Even as the congregations in the first century recognized the governing body in Jerusalem, so today the congregations would not prosper spiritually without central supervision.?Acts 15:2-30; 16:4, 5.
To keep matters in proper perspective, however, it was pointed out that when The Watchtower referred to "The Society," this meant, not a mere legal instrumentality, but the body of anointed Christians that had formed that legal entity and used it. Thus the expression stood for the faithful and discreet slave with its Governing Body.
dostprefer - how much clearer do you want it? The WTBTS is the FDS's instrument - used exclusively by them to dispense
truthlies to the witness community. PERIOD - can we move on?Can you really be such an idiot? Or is TJ standing there with you?
Jeff
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AK - Jeff
Sorry gang - I loose my cool with stupid trolls. At least intelligent trolls are worth debating - they might see the light of real truth someday.
Oh wait! Intelligent trolls is an oxymoron isn't it?
Jeff
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ozziepost
Ask who the FDS was between 100 and 1879 A.D.?
Nowhere! According to WTS doctrine the F&DS appears when Jesus was installed as heavenly King. Then the WTS claims they were the ones chosen.
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peacefulpete
Calling someone a troll or idiot doesn't make them feel welcome or appreciated. Yes there are a few that post on the site that are irritatingly irrational but the comments here have been sincere. Being wrong does not make you an idiot.
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jeanniebeanz
Re: Have you ever asked an elder...
Yes. They would not answer my question, got red and asked me who I had been talking to as this was an apostate question. It scared me at the time since I was asking in sincerety and was a witness in good standing at the time. I never asked them again for fear of being viewed as disruptive when I only wanted to know the answer to a pretty simple question.
J