Two Different Views/Hypocrisy

by troubled 12 Replies latest jw friends

  • troubled
    troubled

    What's hard is seeing things 2 different ways.

    In other words, sometimes when I realistically look at things in the organization (without pushing away the uncomfortable thoughts or feeling guilty), I come to the conclusion that "Yes, something is definitely wrong in this organization."

    But then when I go to the meetings, service, etc., I think differently (i.e., "This is the truth, and I'm just spiritually weak and need to study more)."

    Since I seem to be influenced both directions, how can I be sure which viewpoint is right?

    And is is bad for me to be "on the fence?" I mean, still going to meetings and in service, even though I have doubts and questions I am trying to resolve? Is that hypocritical?

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    Hello again, troubled.

    What's hard is seeing things 2 different ways.

    In other words, sometimes when I realistically look at things in the organization (without pushing away the uncomfortable thoughts or feeling guilty), I come to the conclusion that "Yes, something is definitely wrong in this organization."

    But then when I go to the meetings, service, etc., I think differently (i.e., "This is the truth, and I'm just spiritually weak and need to study more)."

    Sounds as if you have reached the cognitive dissonant stage. See if this description of cognitive dissonance doesn't sound familiar:

    "Dissonance and consonance are relations among cognitions that is, among opinions, beliefs, knowledge of the environment, and knowledge of one's own actions and feelings. Two opinions, or beliefs, or items of knowledge are dissonant with each other if they do not fit together that is, if they are inconsistent, or if, considering only the particular two items, one does not follow from the other. For example, a cigarette smoker who believes that smoking is bad for his health has an opinion that is dissonant with the knowledge that he is continuing to smoke. He may have many other opinions, beliefs, or items of knowledge that are consonant with continuing to smoke but the dissonance nevertheless exists too.

    "Dissonance produces discomfort and, correspondingly, there will arise pressures to reduce or eliminate the dissonance. Attempts to reduce dissonance represent the observable manifestations that dissonance exists. Such attempts may take any or all of three forms. The person may try to change one or more of the beliefs, opinions, or behaviors involved in the dissonance; to acquire new information or beliefs that will increase the existing consonance and thus cause the total dissonance to be reduced; or to forget or reduce the importance of those cognitions that are in a dissonant relationship." (p. 25-26)

    "Alternatively, the dissonance would be reduced or eliminated if the members of a movement effectively blind themselves to the fact that the prediction has not been fulfilled. But most people, including members of such movements, are in touch with reality and cannot simply blot out of their cognition such an unequivocal and undeniable fact. They can try to ignore it, however, and they usually do try. They may convince themselves that the date was wrong but that the prediction will, after all, be shortly confirmed; or they may even set another date as the Millerites did.... Rationalization can reduce dissonance somewhat. For rationalization to be fully effective, support from others is needed to make the explanation or the revision seem correct. Fortunately, the disappointed believer can usually turn to the others in the same movement, who have the same dissonance and the same pressures to reduce it. Support for the new explanation is, hence, forthcoming and the members of the movement can recover somewhat from the shock of the disconfirmation." --Leon Festinger, Henry W. Riecken, and Stanley Schachter, When Prophecy Fails, (New York: Harper and Row, 1956), pp. 27, 28.

    You can also find a good description of this thought conflict in Orwell's 1984. You are literally trying to keep two contradictory thoughts in your head simultaneously. Since it is hard on the mind to have this happen, it begins to rationalize and make excuses. And since our emotions are involved, what with all our friends at the Hall and our family members, we even have a motive to forget those dissonant thoughts.

    We know; we've been there.

    Since I seem to be influenced both directions, how can I be sure which viewpoint is right?

    Logical, direct, clear thinking. Both views cannot be correct. Only one of them will withstand the harsh glare of truth. Go ahead, investigate both ways of thinking. One way will melt away at hard study, and the other will always be there staring you in the face.

    And is is bad for me to be "on the fence?" I mean, still going to meetings and in service, even though I have doubts and questions I am trying to resolve? Is that hypocritical?

    What is the alternative? If you suddenly stop, the elders will be all over you, smothering you with love and concern and not allowing you to think independently. As far as being on the fence, you can either turn your back on all your concerns and push all the dissonant thoughts out of your head, or you can continue to investigate.

    The choice is yours. I can tell you this: you are at the stage where you can still turn back and fairly successfully keep the "bad" thoughts out of your mind, most of the time. You can have a successful life as a Witness, and maybe even regain the joy that you have lost.

    Or you can move forward the way many of us have (I was an elder, for instance, before I walked away).

    The choice is yours. You may find happiness on either path, though I won't kid you about which path I think will bring you a greater chance of happiness. But it really is your choice, and we respect that completely. Do whatever you want, and we're here to help you if you want it.

    I wish you the best.

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    : Since I seem to be influenced both directions, how can I be sure which viewpoint is right?

    I think you've already answered your own question: when you realistically look at things in the organization (without pushing away the uncomfortable thoughts or feeling guilty), you come to the conclusion that "Yes, something is definitely wrong in this organization."

    When you go to the meetings you lose that realism and you fall back into your JW training to push away uncomfortable thoughts. You've been trained this way from your very first contacts. You've been subtly and not-so-subtly trained to feel guilty about raising questions in certain areas, areas that touch on things that you intellectually know cannot be explained and/or justified by rational reasons.

    Most of us ex-JWs know very well how this works, because we've all fallen victim to it. It's very much like the system of mental training that George Orwell described in his books Nineteen Eighty Four and Animal Farm. At first we were told that certain views and attitudes were displeasing to God. We consciously recognized these things. After more immersion in JWism we recognized that certain things were displeasing to the Society. We came to know that we shouldn't ask too hard questions about the foundation of the claim of JW leaders to speak for God. We "just knew" that they did, and that no one could actually explain it, and that raising questions about it made other JWs uncomfortable. After more training, we came to be able to unconsciously recognize these off-limits areas. "Do not question Jehovah's organization, out loud or even in your mind" became an extremely important mental directive.

    When you go back to the familiar surroundings of the Kingdom Hall, all the subtle cues of the environment work to plop you right back into the familiar mental state -- one where the ideal is unquestioning obedience to JW leaders. So it's no wonder that you feel guilt when you let contrary thoughts come to the surface.

    I know very well how this works. I haven't been a truly active JW in 22 years, and yet, on the rare occasions that I've attended meetings in the last few years, I feel some of those old, ingrained-from-childhood emotional reactions kicking in. They're easy for me to control, but I find it unsettling that they're still there.

    The very best thing for you would be to take a vacation from JW activities. You'll find that the longer you stay away, the less tendency you'll have to feel guilty and to have that old training kick in. Eventually your mind will be able to deal with the emotional controls, and to control them instead of having your JW-trained emotions control your mind. Most people find that it takes time for this to happen, usually many months, sometimes years.

    In the meatime you've discovered a group that will support you, because they've "been there, done that". Take advantage of them.

    AlanF

  • Billygoat
    Billygoat

    troubled,

    Glad to hear you asking questions like this. I think you are closer to your answer than you realize. It's underneath your nose - are you willing to be courageous and see it? It takes courage to meet reality square in the face. God will give you strength when you don't feel strong.

    When reading responses, just keep a couple things in mind. Without any emotion attached, what are the facts? How do they compare with what the brothers are teaching you? Are they living according to those facts? Or are they just saying words to make you live by their manmade rules?

    Listen to your gut dear. God talks to me through my gut. What's challenging is getting the "white noise" filtered out so you can hear when He's talking. Keep up the posting! You're asking all the right questions. We just share experiences and viewpoints we've acquired because of them. You'll do the same...just don't be afraid to use the very sharp brain Jehovah gave you!

    Blessings,
    Billygoat

  • You Know
    You Know

    Your two different views are entirely compatible. It is not a question of either--or. Yes, there are problems, but that doesn't mean that we do not have the truth. Jesus indicated as much, that there would be things that cause others to stumble within the organization. In fact, it is only when Jesus actually commences the judgment that the things and persons causing stumbling will at last be removed by the angels from among us. One of the reasons many have stumbled out of the organization, and will yet do so, is because of having this unrealistic and unscriptural view that the Society can do no wrong. The friends that have that opinion are setting themselves up for a huge disappointment when it comes to their realization that there are problems---serious problems. The bottom line though should be our faith in Jehovah and Jesus. Ultimately, only those who truly rely on Jehovah will make it to the end with their faith intact. Those who are exclusively following men, and who allow their faith to be determined by what the Watchtower Society does or doesn't do, are on a deadend road. You are welcome to email me if you wish.

    [email protected]

  • waiting
    waiting

    Hey Troubled,

    I came to the Internet and sat on the fence for a time - about 6 months. I took that time to read, think, share with my husband my thoughts - and listen to his, read books recommended (Crisis of Conscience should be #1 - get your yellow marker ready).

    There are so many good websites, print out the stuff, compare to your bound volumes and books, and prove to yourself what is the truth. All in the privacy of your own home.

    Give yourself time to heal, to meditate, think your way through and deal with all the emotional turmoil. It does subside.

    After all, doesn't the WTBTS say the same thing? Investigate your religion, prove to yourself that it has the truth, nothing to hide. The Truth should be able to stand up to inspection. We tell others that all the time about their religion. Jehovah's Witnesses should be able to take the exact same scrutiny, don't you think?

    Have you ever met an old boyfriend, gone back to your hometown, old school, old friends - and felt the familiar tug of emotion? Even though your old boyfriend *kinda* dumped you? Your hometown is dirty? Old friends gossiped sometimes? But we knew them, and we had some good times. The tug of the familiar is hard to resist.

    That's where thinking comes in so handy. Btw, a lot of us have chuckled that for a while (when reading & thinking independently) that we were afraid of lightning bolts coming down - but we're all still around.

    Hang in there, the fence ain't so bad - gives time to think.

    waiting

  • anon
    anon

    Good questions. I have had the same ones. My viewpoint is it depends on what you’re doubting. 1 Kings 18:21 says we should get off the fence. James 1:5-8 also discourages doubts. Doubts in what? Doubts that there is a God, that he created us, that the Bible is inspired, that Jesus came as a ransom, that there is a hope for the future, etc. – these are the kinds of things I do not doubt.
    The information on the internet about the Watchtower Society may be news to many JW’s. Others of us have been familiar with most of this information for many years. Not all elders will recoil at discussing questions you have about these matters.
    Most here will dispute that there is any need to associate with anyone else in any organized fashion. Still, Heb 10:24,25 is in the Bible isn’t it? 1 Corinthians 1:10 urged them to be united. In your experience how many churches fit the bill? There are qualifications listed for elders too. If there were no need for any organization, there obviously would not be any need to appoint any elders.
    The Bible does say that there will be last days and one of the identifiers of that time will be the preaching work. In another thread I posed the question ‘who else is doing the preaching work?’ Some say it’s not really expected of us. What about Matt 24:14; 28:19,20; Acts 1:8? Someone else said Mennonites and Mormons do it too. Draw your own conclusions about whether they are fulfilling command to preach.
    I raised the neutrality issue as well. Usual responses – ‘some others do that too’, ‘it’s your duty to your country’. Do you believe it’s okay to get involved in world’s conflicts and kill your fellowman?
    If you accept any of these points, the list of groups that meet that standard is very small. John 6:68 is generally mocked here, but mocking it doesn’t really answer the question does it?
    AlanF suggested you had two options. Bury your head in the sand or leave. I suggest a third option. Confront the problems and stay.
    Are there valid, troubling questions raised? People treated harshly, unjustly? Certainly. This is not new. Look at what happened in Israel and in 1st century Christianity. Plenty of problems there too. What would you have done if you personally knew David or were in the Corinthian congregation? Jehovah did not instigate or condone those things but he tolerated it. Even though these problems were among his people.
    Today we have the same situation. Jehovah continues to tolerate injustice both in the whole world and also among his people. Does that excuse individuals responsible for problems in organization? No, but they will have to answer for it in time. Am I saying that ‘wait on Jehovah’ is a valid all-purpose excuse? No. I view it as a cop-out on the part of some who will not stand up and do what’s right. Many times I believe it would be more accurate to say that Jehovah is waiting on us. Waiting for responsible ones to get it right.
    As far as not getting attention you need from your cong, have you specifically requested what would help you? I know that we may feel it should happen without our having to ask, but sometimes it just doesn’t happen. It is true that it is hard to find time to care for your family and needs of those in cong. If no one is in position to help you in your cong look in a different one.
    Will this solve all your problems? No. Am I trying to discourage you from seeking help elsewhere? No. Much of the response you receive here will be pretty one sided. I just wanted to let you know that there are those who have struggled with doubts and injustice and have not left.

  • Winston
    Winston

    Dear Troubled,

    I use to be an elder and I know how you feel.

    Many say where do we go if we leave the WT. We feel lost if we leave. Many see the lies the WT teaches and leave and they have a certain emptiness.

    God does not have an organization that we can go to, and then we are set for eternity.

    We individually have to develope a personal relationship with him. Read and reread Ray Franz book "In Search of Christian Freedom" it will really help you to see where you should go(you go to our master Christ).

    Organizations enslave because that is just the nature of organization, an organization is not interested in truth only its self preservation. And will use questionable means to futher itself like we see the WT doing. It should not suprise us.

    You can have a very loving and close relationship with Jehovah that has nothing to do with what organizaton you belong to.

    The Never Ending Search For Truth

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Hello, dear Troubled... and may you have peace!

    You said that after attending meetings, you feel that "This is the truth," and it is you who are weak. May I direct your attention to the following?

    John 8:32
    John 14:6
    John 8:36

    Now, ask yourself, just how many "Truths" ARE there, really?

    There's only One Truth, Troubled, and his Father don't dwell in no handmade temples. You will NOT find either of them at a kingdom hall, for they reside in the 'temple', where my Father's spirit ALWAYS dwells.

    1 Corinthians 3:16

    Thus, says my Lord, "Where two or more are gathered in my name, there I am also," and "where the BODY is, there the eagles gather".

    The WTBTS is NOT the Body of Christ, Trouble. You have been misled (Matthew 24:24)... and you are in 'trouble'. But you don't HAVE to be. You could simply follow the Lamb wherever HE goes:

    Matthew 11:28
    John 7:37, 38
    John 6:48, 51, 53, 56

    You COULD simply accept the invitation held out by the Spirit and the TRUE Bride to ALL of earthling man... to 'Come! Take 'life's water' FREE!'

    Revelation 22:17

    You could. You could 'hear'... and then again, you could 'refrain'.

    I bid you peace!

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • ianao
    ianao

    anon:

    Very interesting reasons to NOT leave the 'organization'.

    Also very interesting reasons for non-JWs to NOT leave their current religion because God would tolerate the injustices going on in their current religion and deal with them in his own time.

    Tell me, what would you say to the unsure catholic who's priest was giving them the same reasonings to NOT leave catholicism and become a JW?

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