Hha good one stilla, thanks, I had no idea how easy it is to get all these degrees.
IPSec BS, M.C.P, MM emphasis on Jazz, M.L.S, PhD forestry.
How would a JW handle this? 587 proved correct date for fall of Jerusalem
by confusedjw 54 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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AlanF
unscholar said:
: When I post on matters pertaining to chronology it is always the case that I attract considerable attention and interest.
For the same reason that all JW defenders do: This is a forum dedicated to ex-JW issues, and many posters resent being told by such defenders that what they've already determined are Watchtower lies are the truth.
: It is not possible for me to respond to each and every post but I simply confine my attention to one or more or I reply to my long standing oppisites namely Hilary step or Alan F.
And we know that you usually ignore the most telling criticisms. Especially when you can't find "answers" in WTS publications, or can't get your Norse god Rolf Furuli to come up with responses.
: Let me make this one important point/ WT scholars have for many decades calculated 607 for the Fall of Jerusalem.
Since, 1944, yes.
: Such a calculation is solidly based on secular and biblical evidence
More to the point: Only the date 539 B.C. is based on solid secular evidence. No good scholar disagrees with it. The date of 537 for the return of the Jews to Judah is based on the Society's interpretation of certain biblical passages. A careful reading, though, indicates that 538 B.C. is more likely (cf. Jonsson in GTR).
The rest of what the Society calls "biblical evidence" is entirely a product of the fertile imaginations of a few 19th-century interpreters, beginning (at least, according to the Proclaimers book; see page 134) with one Christopher Bowen, about whom nothing seems to be known other than that his "chronology" is mentioned in later editions of Edward Bishop Elliott's Horae Apocalypticae. Eventually, Nelson Barbour adopted the basics of Bowen's chronology and set forth 606 B.C. as the date of Jerusalem's destruction. Charles Taze Russell adopted Barbour's ideas in 1876 and the Watchtower Society taught them until 1944, when it deceptively changed the date to 607 B.C. Of course, right up through the present, the Society has completely ignored the scriptural passages that disprove its interpretations, such as Jeremiah 25 and especially verses 11 and 12, Jeremiah 27 and especially verses 6 and 7, and 2 Chronicles 36:20. And we know very well that, given this fact of ignoring scriptures it doesn't like, the Society misrepresents a host of other scriptures (e.g. Jer. 29:10, Zech. 1 and 7, Daniel 9) so as to maintain the fictional 607 date. And of course, it has been demonstrated that the Society actively misrepresents a good deal of the secular evidence that disproves its claims.
: which is fully explained in the Society/s publications.
More precisely: only a portion of which is explained in WTS publications. The Society has never, ever fully dealt with the criticisms brought by Jonsson and many others.
: It is based on a Absolute Date which is 529 followed by the relese of the Exiles under Cyrus in 537. These facts are indusputable,
No one disputes 539, but 537 is certainly dicey.
: Further, a period of seventy years marked that of the Exiles in Babylon who served and remained in Babylon for that period of seventy years which also marked a period of desolation of the land.
Both of which claims are based on the Society's faulty interpreting of selected biblical passages while ignoring passages that disprove its interpretation.
: This means that the Bible clearly sets the beginning and end of the seventy years which concluded in 537 and began in 607.
Completely disproved.
: Now, the matter of the seventy years is a matter of interpretation of several key texts and there will be different views on this.
More precisely, the Society's view ignores key passages, while competent interpreters do not.
: WT scholars take the matter of the seventy yeras as serious business,
Of course, because they need it to maintain the huge lie that Watchtower leaders speak for God.
: reading the text directly and not trying to manipulate the matter
This claim has been proved sheer nonsense.
: in order to fit some pet hypothesis.
WTS leaders need 607 to maintain their "pet hypothesis" -- actually their fundamental teaching -- that they constitute a "faithful and discreet slave" that speaks for God.
: Clearly, the Jonsson hypothesis
There is no such thing as a "Jonsson hypothesis". You know this, and yet continue to lie so as to attempt to minimize his work as being the mere interpretation of one man.
But in reality, Jonsson's work is a compilation of the work of the best 19th and 20th century scholars.
Claiming that there's a "Jonsson hypothesis" is like claiming there's a "Feuerbacher hypothesis" of quantum physics merely because I might publish a popular book on it.
: is confused about the seventy years as reflected by the fact that no fixed beginning is determined.
There is no confusion. There is an acknowledgement that the Bible itself sets no date for the beginning of the 70 years mentioned in Jer. 25:11, 12; 29:10. But it clearly indicates the date of the end of the period: 539 B.C. Given the lack of specific scriptural mention of the beginning of the period, and the fact that good arguments can be made that the period might be exact or approximate, it would be unjustifiably dogmatic to claim either view as correct, and assign a date.
: Is it 609 or 605? The length of the seventy years is either literal or symbolic depending on the opinion that there are many seventy year periods offered up to the reader.
Precisely. This is the view of all competent scholars.
: The understanding of the seventy years by the FDS and WT scholars has not and cannot be disproved
It has been disproved many times over. See above for general comments. The Society is unjustifiably dogmatic on this.
: but the calcuable date of 607 results in the fulfillment of prophecy leading to 1914.
Which is precisely the goal. And of course, we know that nothing of real prophetic significance, in terms of Watchtower predictions pre-1914 or Watchtower claims about events since 1914, has occurred. Therefore, the "prophecy" claim is demonstrably bogus.
: Al that apostates can do is present a criticism and an alternative viewpoint or interpretation
That's like saying, "All that Flat-Earthism critics can do is present a criticism and an alternative viewpoint or interpretation", as if that's a viable criticism of the fact that the earth is a sphere.
: and I have no problem with that but please in repect of 607 all should be honest with the facts
Good Lord! You actually have the nerve to say that? You, who demonstrably ignores fact after fact after fact, and gets at least 3/4 of the 'facts' wrong in every post you make!
: venerable scholar
Amazing. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were a troll.
AlanF
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Will Power
just for grins.......
It has been noted that this year's jw memorial is not in the Jewish passover week. This is because every so many years, (because they don't all have 365 days) the passover moon phases get bumped a month here and there. do you think this could account for the 20 year difference?
2005 copyrighted by will power
just in case brooklyn is looking for another new light excuse to get out the calculator.....or any posters (won't mention names) are looking for another excuse to remain in the DHG (dangerous high control group).....
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hamsterbait
Scholar:
You are so loyal to Jehovah's Organisation you keep coming back to talk to we apostates against the Discreet Slave's advice.
How you must love us and care for us, you little toaster.
I have so many questions:
1 Why aren't you disfellowshipped?
2 Why aren't you disfellowshipped?
3 Why aren't you disfellowshipped?
OH! I know - you have disassociated yourself by sharing our company on this board.
You going to die just like us... Wake up and smell the manure.
Even I have reconciled to being a Brummie furball someday.
HB