Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-6-05 WT Study (Abbreviated)

by blondie 30 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Goldminer

  Another great review Blondie!

  And yes,you're right again,I won't hear those comments tomorrow.....won't be there!
• 

  Neo

  I'm taking the liberty to reproduce Pistoff's comments on this week's article from another thread:

  Consider the really stupid article on the pearl of high value. (...) I picked it up in the crapper the other day because anything connected to Jesus interests me. So I read the snippet about the pearl merchant. To me, it's message is clear; the merchant sees the pearl, realizes it's great value and goes all out to buy it. Thus, when seeing something of great value, as the good news about Jesus [to me his destruction of the oppressive religious system] you go after it with all you have. VALUE. That is the message, and why the pearl works. The merchant knows it's value, and does not hesitate to exchange his valuables for it.

  Well, it is not good in WT land to value anything of material value. So the WT says this:

  "A common merchant might first figure out the market vaule of the pearl so as to determine how much he would pay for it in order to make a profit...but not so the merchant in Jesus' parable. His interest was not monetary or material. In fact, he was willing to sacrifice all the things he had." HUH?

  Are you following this twisted sophistry? It is greatly valuable, but...um... not for it's material value. Hmm.. so this means he liquidated his entire assets in order to hold a shiny rock? It gets worse:

  "In the eyes of most merchants, what that man in Jesus' parable did was probably unwise. An astute businessman would not think of undertaking such a risky venture. But the merchant in Jesus' parable had a different sense of values. His reward was, not any financial advantage but the joy and satisfaction of possessing something of surpassing VALUE. This point is made clear in a parallel illustration that Jesus gave. He said: 'The kingdom of the heavens is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid; and for the joy he has he goes and sells what things he has and buys that field.' "

  So, they reason: it is not the material value he is after, but instead owning something of surpassing value!

  And it is like a man who finds....a treasure....I suppose the treasure is not valuable either, huh?

  This concept invalidates the entire point of the parable!! If there is no material value, the point is gone and the merchant looks like an idiot in pursuit of a bauble.

  But this illustrates my point: they have no one who can take the amazing parables of Jesus and motivate the rank and file. It isn't writing anymore; it is a careful avoidance of anything they might have to defend; they tiptoe because they fundamentally MISUNDERSTAND the parable. It is about VALUE, and all they can think is materialism. Since they cannot get the idea that it is a PARABLE, they think we can't either. And so the merchant becomes instead an ascetic!

  When you can't even motivate with the use of Jesus teaching, you should go home and SHUT UP.
• 

  willyloman

  Many were the ones who were cured or fed by Jesus but who simply went about their own business?begged off.

  Re-edited: Many are the ones that are cured and fed spiritually by the WTS/FDS but who simply go about their own business and begged off from the meetings and field service.

  You're right, Blondie, this is exactly what they are implying. There's one thing wrong with their illustration, however. Those "cured or fed" by the WTS/FDS in modern times did not simply "go about their own business," begging off from responsibilities.

  The vast majority left after many years of taking in the food before realizing it wasn't life-giving after all. Rather than "begging off" from meetings and field service, the truth is that their consciences forced them to reexamine the value of these endeavors. Finding them not only wanting, but self-destructive, they did the only reasonable thing a person could do -- they stopped doing them.
• 

  heathen

  It's just as likely that they are following up last weeks lesson with the parable to fully brainwash the rank and file to believe that they are seeking worldly pleasures and that they should sell all their belongings and give to the WTBTS because ,after all, they are supplying all these pearls of wisdom . I do have a hard time reading between the lines with this WTBTS mentallity .

  A good comment was that jesus is the kingdom of the heavens . He plainly said it himself when he informed the pharisees that the kingdom of the heavens was in their midst .
• 

  jgnat

  A pair of awesome ladies! Blondie, I think Minimus is trying to pay us a compliment.
• 

  heathen

  And with that comment , jgnat makes supreme one . Way to go .............. I'm having a beer ...............
• 

  Honesty

  Jesus did preach the gospel of the Kingdom. Did he preach it as a future event? I found an article that about sums up my feelings that Jesus is the Kingdom. When we pray, "Your Kingdom come", I figure we are inviting Jesus to be active in our daily life. jgnat

  I'm getting on the next flight to Heathrow and going to church where the article originated from in the morning.

  Piss on the 'Do More, Do More'WTBTS propaganda, I want some real Bible truth in my heart.
• 

  Flash

  Another great expose Blondie!

  But there is a theme that connects all three: the rank and file are not obeying and trusting the WTS/FDS/GB completely.

  I think you hit the heart of their problem here. It sounds like the rank and file are daring to think more and more on their own.
• 

  blondie

  Hey min,

  DO MORE MORE MORE------------That's what I see as the setup for next week's review.

  You and I both know that while this is the underlying theme of the WT articles, it has been more so in recent months. Without a date like 1975, then the implied 1984 (70 years generation plus 1914), 1984 (80 years if mighty generation plus 1994), then the blow out of the generation living in 1914 seeing the end revealed in 1995, most JWs are getting tired. It has been 10 years since 1995 and the slow down in the economically advanced countries is fairly evident. Who thought that rather than a 5% increase in Japan that there would be no increase and a decrease in congregations. I can remember when Japan had a monthly peak posted in the KM in the Theocratic News and then it suddenly stopped and the TN was dropped. Coincidence?

  Dear jgnat,

  I like how you lay out your insightful questions, Blondie. Articles like yours reawaken critical thinking, an essential service for exiting JW's, I think.

  Thanks, jgnat. Unfortunately, the ability to think critically is not just lacking in JWs. My philosophy professor was always putting her head in her hands after hearing answers from some of the students. I hope that what I learned from her is evident here. I?m still learning myself.

  Good point, heathen,

  It was Jehovah?s will (or the WTS) that a total of 144,000 be taken into the Kingdom covenant as corulers with Jesus Christ in the glorious heavenly Kingdom.

  Looks like more brow beating from brooklyn here . Let me guess, next week is about how only these "anointed" ones should even consider taking a cracker and sip at the memorial .

  I missed that. Yes, I?m sure they are subtly priming the pump for the theme at the next Memorial: There should be no true partakers tonight.

  Thanks BluegrassTom,

  Thank you for your consistent hard work in the behalf of many.

  If I can help you in some way, please let me know.

  Any specific insights from past study or current musings are great; personal experiences as well.

  And welcome.

  Stilla,

  you are so funny.

  if only you were president of the WTBTS

  That reminds me of 2 quotes

  Calvin Coolidge

  "I do not choose to run for President"

  Groucho Marx

  "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."

  Hi again Emperor jgnat,

  A lot of assumptions are made in this article regarding the emotions and motives of the merchant, Jesus, and his disciples. Note the use of these words:

  no doubt (pp 3), evidently (pp 4), proved his loyalty (pp 8), apparently (pp 10), no doubt (pp 11), no doubt (pp 14), joy and satisfaction must have filled their hearts (pp 17).

  Yes, recognizing those buzzwords is a good way to see where the WTS is going to veer off from the Bible and into their personal interpretation.

  The scripture is like a flag a person holds while they say they are patriotic. The WTS thinks that pairing a scripture with their statement that it means their statement is scriptural.

  I wonder how many times Jesus had already demonstrated his loyalty? Hadn?t other angels already been disloyal? Did Jesus follow them? Would God let Jesus carry the future of the human race on the basis of his actions, if he thought he would be disloyal?

  The problem here is that JWs are no longer being loyal to the WTS in a variety of ways. The third article in this issue hammers that point.

  Min and jgnat,

  What a pair! I knew that it was just a tease. Min is one of those men who finds women sexy because of their intelligence.

  Hi Goldminer,

  I?m happy you won?t be there today (Sunday). I will be absent as well. No point in hearing the paragraphs read, then read again when people answer.

  Thanks, Neo, I missed it (Pistoff?s comments)

  Well, it is not good in WT land to value anything of material value. So the WT says this:

  "A common merchant might first figure out the market vaule of the pearl so as to determine how much he would pay for it in order to make a profit...but not so the merchant in Jesus' parable. His interest was not monetary or material. In fact, he was willing to sacrifice all the things he had." HUH?

  Are you following this twisted sophistry? It is greatly valuable, but...um... not for it's material value

  . Hmm.. so this means he liquidated his entire assets in order to hold a shiny rock? It gets worse:

  "In the eyes of most merchants, what that man in Jesus' parable did was probably unwise. An astute businessman would not think of undertaking such a risky venture. But the merchant in Jesus' parable had a different sense of values. His reward was, not any financial advantage but the joy and satisfaction of possessing something of surpassing VALUE. This point is made clear in a parallel illustration that Jesus gave. He said: 'The kingdom of the heavens is like a treasure hidden in the field, which a man found and hid; and for the joy he has he goes and sells what things he has and buys that field.' "

  So, they reason: it is not the material value he is after, but instead owning something of surpassing value!

  And it is like a man who finds....a treasure....I suppose the treasure is not valuable either, huh?

  This concept invalidates the entire point of the parable!! If there is no material value, the point is gone and the merchant looks like an idiot in pursuit of a bauble.

  I would say this is a case of the WTS saying they are being scriptural because they used a scripture.

  Very good, Pistoff.

  Thanks, willyloman (I noticed your creator died recently)

  The vast majority left after many years of taking in the food before realizing it wasn't life-giving after all. Rather than "begging off" from meetings and field service, the truth is that their consciences forced them to reexamine the value of these endeavors. Finding them not only wanting, but self-destructive, they did the only reasonable thing a person could do -- they stopped doing them.

  That is so true. The scary thing to the WTS is that people are not just abruptly leaving but cutting back. One JW told me that so many people no longer go to the school and service meeting that when the CO came through he was furious. The public talk has fewer people than the WT study and in spite of a nonprophetic study book on Tuesday, attendance has plummeted. Remember the days when they pushed for 100% attendance at the Saturday meeting for field service during the CO visit. They are lucky if 35% show up and many of the missing are elders, MS and their families. They think if they went out during the week they don?t have to show up on Saturday.

  Hello again heathen,

  fully brainwash the rank and file to believe that they are seeking worldly pleasures and that they should sell all their belongings and give to the WTBTS because

  I think the WT is more concerned that the rank and file are missing meetings and not turning in enough field service time. I doubt they will ever get the majority of JWs today to give up their cushy homes, cars, and retirement plans for the WTS not unless they are given some perk or title like CO/DO, Bethelite, city overseer, convention chairman, etc., etc. I do know some that did that and went to Bethel and returned after a year. I guess the perks at Bethel did not match the ones they gave up but quickly retrieved.

  Honesty,

  Is this true or are you being facetious?

  I'm getting on the next flight to Heathrow and going to church where the article originated from in the morning.

  Hi Flash,

  It sounds like the rank and file are daring to think more and more on their own.

  At least they are finding ways of doing it without getting into trouble.

  Love, Blondie
• 

  El blanko

  Thanks for uploading and your comments. Thought provoking stuff.