catholic question

by candidlynuts 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • candidlynuts
    candidlynuts

    in cindys post she mentioned that her grandad had been pulled aside by his catholic priests and asked to contribute more or his mother wouldnt get out of purgatory.

    do catholics really do that? pay to get outta purgatory? i have a friend who went to the vatican on a vacation and came back with an indulgence he'd bought for 200 bux and said having bought that he'd get to heaven for sure no matter what he did. i thought he was kidding! i'd never make it as a catholic, i live off of 500 bux a month! it wasnt even enough to be a jw.

  • missy04
    missy04

    I am not sure Candy..My grandparents are Catholic but I haven't heard anything like that. They live fairly comfortably.

  • Robert K Stock
    Robert K Stock

    "When a coin in the coffer rings, a soul from Purgatory springs."

    One of the major reasons for the Reformation.

  • the_classicist
    the_classicist

    This is what a priest (Fr. Echert) wrote:

    When a Catholic requests a memorial Mass for the dead?that is, a Mass said for the benefit of someone in purgatory?it is customary to give the parish priest a stipend, on the principles that the laborer is worth his hire (Luke 10:7) and that those who preside at the altar share the altar?s offerings (1 Cor. 9:13?14). In the United States, a stipend is commonly around five dollars; but the indigent do not have to pay anything. A few people, of course, freely offer more. This money goes to the parish priest, and priests are only allowed to receive one such stipend per day. No one gets rich on five dollars a day, and certainly not the Church, which does not receive the money anyway.

    and what someone else wrote:

    The Church forbids any monetary exchange for spiritual goods. This would be simony (The buying or selling of spiritual things-Acts 8:18-24). No one is denied a Mass because of an inability to pay.

    CCC 2122: The minister should ask nothing for the administration of the sacraments beyond the offerings defined by the competent authority, always being careful that the needy are not deprived of the help of the sacraments because of their poverty."[56]

    However, a voluntary monetary "offering" (stipend) in support of the clergy is encouraged. For 'The laborer deserves his food.'[Mt 10:10 ; cf. Lk 10:7 ; 2 Cor 9:5-18 ; 1 Tim 5:17-18--Section 2122 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church]. To help you better understand the difference between the offering of a stipend and the act of simony, read this.

  • candidlynuts
    candidlynuts

    oh goodness ! does "voluntary" and "encouraged" mean the same in catholism as it does in jw'ism?

  • the_classicist
    the_classicist

    And there's this, more than likely biased (http://www.catholic.com/library/Myths_About_Indulgences.asp):

    Myth 1: A person can buy his way out of hell with indulgences.

    This charge is without foundation. Since indulgences remit only temporal penalties, they cannot remit the eternal penalty of hell. Once a person is in hell, no amount of indulgences will ever change that fact. The only way to avoid hell is by appealing to God?s eternal mercy while still alive. After death, one?s eternal fate is set (Heb. 9:27).

    Myth 2: A person can buy indulgences for sins not yet committed.

    The Church has always taught that indulgences do not apply to sins not yet committed. The Catholic Encyclopedia notes, "[An indulgence] is not a permission to commit sin, nor a pardon of future sin; neither could be granted by any power."

    Myth 3: A person can "buy forgiveness" with indulgences.

    The definition of indulgences presupposes that forgiveness has already taken place: "An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven" (Indulgentarium Doctrina 1, emphasis added). Indulgences in no way forgive sins. They deal only with punishments left after sins have been forgiven.

    Myth 4: Indulgences were invented as a means for the Church to raise money.
    Indulgences developed from reflection on the sacrament of reconciliation. They are a way of shortening the penance of sacramental discipline and were in use centuries before money-related problems appeared.

    Myth 5: An indulgence will shorten your time in purgatory by a fixed number of days.

    The number of days which used to be attached to indulgences were references to the period of penance one might undergo during life on earth. The Catholic Church does not claim to know anything about how long or short purgatory is in general, much less in a specific person?s case.

    Myth 6: A person can buy indulgences.

    The Council of Trent instituted severe reforms in the practice of granting indulgences, and, because of prior abuses, "in 1567 Pope Pius V canceled all grants of indulgences involving any fees or other financial transactions" (Catholic Encyclopedia). This act proved the Church?s seriousness about removing abuses from indulgences.

    Myth 7: A person used to be able to buy indulgences.

    One never could "buy" indulgences. The financial scandal surrounding indulgences, the scandal that gave Martin Luther an excuse for his heterodoxy, involved alms?indulgences in which the giving of alms to some charitable fund or foundation was used as the occasion to grant the indulgence. There was no outright selling of indulgences. The Catholic Encyclopedia states: "[I]t is easy to see how abuses crept in. Among the good works which might be encouraged by being made the condition of an indulgence, almsgiving would naturally hold a conspicuous place. . . . It is well to observe that in these purposes there is nothing essentially evil. To give money to God or to the poor is a praiseworthy act, and, when it is done from right motives, it will surely not go unrewarded."

  • Robert K Stock
    Robert K Stock

    My experience with the Watchtower Society makes me look at such claims with suspicion

  • the_classicist
    the_classicist

    Well, the thing is, just before the Council of Trent, the Catholic Church was full of crooks. Pope Alexander VI created a new position in the Church: the papal concubine (most likely assuming the missionary position). There were more than likely abuses, but then some better Popes got in (like Pius the V?) and the house got cleaned up, so to speak. You could say that the renaissance was a dark time for the church, as it is in now, though not as bad.

    They say that God raises saints in times of crisis, especially moral, for the Church (ex., Pope St. Pius V, St. Francis of Assisi). I've yet to see such a saint in modern times.

  • candidlynuts
    candidlynuts

    well i'm the first to admit anything and everythign i know about the catholic church comes from 40 yrs as a jw. but in my new life as an ex jw i TRY not to let information from the wtbs influence my opinions.

    i saw jeffs program on the catholic channel last month. and other than that all i know is incidental bits and pieces.

  • Robert K Stock
    Robert K Stock

    My choice for modern Catholic saint is one of the translators of the Jerusalem Bible

    JRR Tolkien.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit