Archaeologists in Ethiopia discover 12 fossils around 4 million years old
by hawkaw 38 Replies latest jw friends
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hawkaw
Hooberus is nothing more than a Young Earth Creationist who does not practice science.
In his above-noted post Hooberous has provided links to improper science or people who are twisting tools in science improperly.
If people take the time and actually read how scientists actually date things they will realize the stance taken by YEC is completely wrong - and all in the name of saving a literal reading of Genesis. In the above-noted url links that I have provided to you on this thread the following is stated that sums up my feelings about the web sites that hooberous has provided and the games the YEC play such as hooberous.
Let's compare real science to "scientific" creationism.
Real scientists, as did Darwin, usually spend some time pointing out the possible weaknesses they see in their theories. This is done not only to highlight areas which need further study but in order to strike a balanced presentation that will not mislead the reader. Truth is the overriding goal. Creationists usually minimize or ignore the weaknesses in their theories unless the cat is out of the bag. Inserting their views into the public educational system is usually their goal.
Real scientists publish scientific literature, which can be very unorthodox, in refereed journals. This serves as a clearing house for ideas as well as a common testing ground.
Creationists, who apparently have nothing worth saying to the scientific community, invariably write for the layman. They have found it necessary to publish their ideas in special "creationist journals" because none of the hundreds of legitimate scientific journals find their work acceptable. Creationist journals mostly serve as a rallying point for the faithful, rarely as a means for criticizing their fellow believers.
Real scientists are quick to criticize their colleagues if they suspect an error. (Remember the cold fusion flap?) Catching errors improves their status in the scientific community even as it improves the level of science.
Creationists have a fortress mentality, and they are quick to circle their wagons. To admit error is considered bad form among creationists, and most of them must literally be smoked out before admitting any errors whatsoever. With no effective mechanism for weeding out error, errors are passed down like the family jewels. Today, one can buy many creationist books containing errors that should have been eliminated 20-30 years ago!
Real scientists are quick to test promising new ideas (however unorthodox) and those which don't pan out quickly disappear from the literature. Fame and fortune await any scientist who successfully advances a novel idea.
Creationists are largely concerned with protecting their dogma, not advancing new ideas that might question that dogma. Rejection is the likely lot of any creationist who questions the central dogma. Creationist arguments having serious errors, including arguments based solely on obsolete data, circulate indefinitely in the creationist literature.
Real scientists are often involved in meaningful laboratory and field work. They are looking for new data which might clarify, overturn, or confirm their views.
Creationists spend most of their time combing through books and technical journals for quotes with which to snipe at evolution, geology, astronomy, and other areas of science which challenge their central dogma. When they're not doing that, they can usually be found out on the stump drumming up support among the uneducated public. [emphasis added]
Real scientists base their theories on the available evidence. They are not immune to the effects of prejudice, but they all understand that the facts dictate the conclusion. Conclusions are subservient to the data; data are not subservient to conclusions.
Creationists take their science straight from the Bible. Many creationist leaders have publicly stated, often in print, that any evidence at variance with their literal interpretation of the Bible should be rejected out of hand. Their a priori conclusions dictate what data are acceptable. That's not science!
No self-respecting scientist would ever think of signing an oath of allegiance to Darwinism as a condition for employment. Evidence is "king" in good science, and there is no room for competing loyalties.
Many creationist societies actually require a "loyalty oath," which is tantamount to an admission that their minds are closed! Such minds are slammed shut and rusted tight!
All good scientists admit that they might be wrong, that absolute certainty is not part of science. Scientists long ago recognized that our knowledge of the physical world is largely a product of inductive reasoning. In principle, inductive reasoning can yield a high degree of confidence, but it can never confer 100% certainty. The uncertainty of inductive reasoning follows from the fact that any set of observations can be explained, in principle, by an infinite number of hypotheses! One can never rule them all out no matter how much data one has. Thus, the proper scientific attitude includes a touch of humility no matter how great one's success.
Except for trivial details, creationists cannot conceive of the possibility that they are in error as that would take down their concept of biblical inerrancy. Since "scientific" creationism is really a branch of Bible apologetics, there is no room for compromise. "Scientific" creationism is there to defend the faith, not to probe the unknown.
Real scientists are often found in the great universities, where real science is done and advanced. None of those institutions take creationism seriously.
Creationists are usually associated with creationist societies. Those few "universities" where creationism is featured have either failed to get full accreditation or have done so only through the pulling of political strings. What discoveries have they made? Name their Nobel laureates!
Scientists build upon previous knowledge accumulated over the years, and only rarely participate in great, revolutionary breakthroughs.
Creationists fancy that they are in the process of overthrowing modern biology, geology, astronomy, anthropology, linguistics, paleontology, archaeology, oceanography, cosmology, physics, and numerous other branches of science. Some creationists (the flat-earth societies) would add the "grease-ball" theory of round-earth geography to that list. Anything that doesn't conform to their interpretation of the Bible is suspect and in need of revision.
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AlanF
Hooberus, these articles are virtually all demonstrable nonsense.
AlanF
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hillary_step
Here is a sample of the nonesense taken from one of Hooberus links. It clearly shows the agenda that YEC have. The agenda has nothing to do with scientific truth, but all to do with defending the indefensible :
Tree ring dating (dendrochronology) has been used in an attempt to extend the calibration of carbon-14 dating earlier than historical records allow. The oldest living trees, such as the Bristlecone Pines (Pinus longaeva) of the White Mountains of Eastern California, were dated in 1957 by counting tree rings at 4,723 years old. This would mean they pre-dated the Flood which occurred around 4,350 years ago, taking a straight-forward approach to Biblical chronology.
However, when the interpretation of scientific data contradicts the true history of the world as revealed in the Bible, then it?s the interpretation of the data that is at fault. It?s important to remember that we have limited data, and new discoveries have often overturned previous ?hard facts
I would be very pleased if Hooberus would show me how the bolded statement actually serves the needs of truth? True science, unlike YEC para/psuedo science does not start with conclusions, it ends with them.
HS
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hillary_step
As an addendum.
A participant on this thread mailed me and seriously attempted to convince me that the fossil and other records, that clearly show that mankind is far older than the time scale allowed by the Bible, was actually planted around the earth by 'Satan' in an attempt to 'confuse' mankind.
I am deadly serious!
HS
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Big Tex
that clearly show that mankind is far older than the time scale allowed by the Bible, was actually planted around the earth by 'Satan' in an attempt to 'confuse' mankind.
Unbelievable.
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hawkaw
A participant on this thread mailed me and seriously attempted to convince me that the fossil and other records, that clearly show that mankind is far older than the time scale allowed by the Bible, was actually planted around the earth by 'Satan' in an attempt to 'confuse' mankind.
If that person actually took the time to review a lot of what science is about, that person would realize that science is NOT a cult. That person needs to realize that the Book of Genesis is not the be all or end all either. That person needs to start opening his/her mind and to start critically thinking and reading.
I strongly urge all members/participants to review the links I have provided. Clearly and slowly read and think about the information provided. Remember the definitions of theory and law as they relate to science that I have provided you.
People, a lot of you came out of a dangerous cult unlike little old me. You are free now and likely now have the knowledge to practice proper critical thinking and reading skills. Science gives you independent tools and explanations of real life observations to allow you to move forward in life. Since the 1990s, the Internet has provided the general population with awesome access to the scientists tool box so they can fully understand actual processes such as the theory of relativity and the theory of biological evolution. Understand them and use them in your life and don't fall for misrepresentations of Young Earth Creationists.
hawk
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acsot
I remember when I first broke free of the fear of reading information contradictory to the WTS or other fundies: I read many of AlanF's essays and looked things up on the talkorigins site as well as a few others sites recommended by various posters here.
All that reading not only opened my eyes and mind but also reminded me never to open my mouth about something I wasn't entirely sure of, 'cause you end up having to defend your views (which is impossible when it comes to young earth theories) to the likes of AlanF, hawkaw, Abaddon and others.
Give it up, hooberus, unless you like looking silly and uninformed.
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IronGland
Booberus, are you paid to shill for answersingenesis?
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Poztate
that clearly show that mankind is far older than the time scale allowed by the Bible, was actually planted around the earth by 'Satan' in an attempt to 'confuse' mankind.
Unbelievable.IT's SATAN....IT's SATAN.... IT's SATAN.... ROFLMAO