Talked to a friend of mine...

by ithinkisee 21 Replies latest jw experiences

  • ithinkisee
    ithinkisee

    Over the last week I have been telling a longtime friend of mine from my hometown about what I found. We were best friends all growing up and he had some real bad physical abuse probs in his house and so when he graduated he left the truth and has just recently started coming back. He?s been studying off and on. He?s really a sharp guy ? he graduated from University of Washington with a Bachelors degree a couple years back. So I have been showing him stuff and then I called him last night and we talked for about three hours.

    I sent him small bits of stuff over the past week so as not to overwhelm him. I sent him some really bad misquotes on the cross in the reasoning book, the sodomite flip-flops as sort of softball ones that don?t really make someone rethink their faith, but gets them to admit that those mistakes are pretty blatant. Then I sent him the 607 BCE stuff and that REALLY got him. He said that is something he has been wondering and what he has been asking the elder that studies with him.

    He was out for most of the 90?s, so he had no idea about the UN stuff, the 1995 changing of a generation, the child abuse stuff. So I sent him the Dateline transcript of the child abuse stuff, amongst other things.

    It was actually good for me. I was able to explain a lot ? and it?s really the first time I was able to explain stuff out loud ? talking through it.

    Of course, at the end he asked, ?So if the JWs don?t have the truth, then what is the answer??

    I didn?t handle that so smoothly. I basically said that I am still looking for that, and admittedly, what keeps many people in the Organization is that the JWs ?seem? to have the answer for everything. That is a nice comfort for most JWs. I told him right now I think I believe the Bible is likely inspired, and that since I believe that I think that I believe Jesus in that there is no need for a man-made organization, that it really is a one-on-one relationship with Jesus. All the quotas and man-made rules remove all sincerity and make serving God a drudgery.

    The other question I sorta stumbled when talking it out was when he asked, ?If the Society is so deceptive and inaccurate, what is their motivation? Why would they put this elaborate scheme together to deceive people.?

    After fumbling a bit, and admitting I could never know the TRUE answer, I told him that if you look at the history of the Society, they have had problems from the beginning. But I really think most of the Governing Body were and are deeply sincere in their belief that the Society is God?s channel to speak with people. I think the Governing Body feel they bear a very important responsibility that has been handed down and entrusted to them. But just because the Society was/is sincere doesn?t make them legitimate. History is littered with examples of sincere political and religious leaders that did terrible things to their followers and enemies.

    He?s going to call me again on Saturday when my wife is away, but it was a generally positive conversation

    -ithinkisee

  • Odrade
    Odrade
    ?If the Society is so deceptive and inaccurate, what is their motivation? Why would they put this elaborate scheme together to deceive people.?

    I struggle with that one too. I have no doubt that they are wrong, I just keep asking "why why why do they persist in being wrong."

    I was thinking about this the other day. I was cutting a frame down for a poster, using a box knife and no straight-edge. (i know, duh...) Anyways, unsurprisingly, the cut went all wonky. But, I kept running the knife through the messed up groove to finish cutting through. Why? who knows. I had this idea of "well, I'll just finish this, since it's already screwed up, and straighten it out later."

    Maybe this is how it starts. By the time they identify the problem, they're in too deep to backtrack. They just have to follow through with their screw-up.

    Not very comforting.

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist
    I struggle with that one too. I have no doubt that they are wrong, I just keep asking "why why why do they persist in being wrong."

    From Ray's book I got the impression that the GB believes they are leading "God's organization", that people truly need to be associated with it in order to survive the end. If you first accept that as a fact -- as they apparently do -- then the deception, the compromise, the contradictions are all part of the deal to keep the flock together. Viewing the flock as children making faces, they are basically saying, "If you keep doing that, your face will stick that way" even though they know it isn't true. They truly believe you shouldn't make faces, and they're willing to lie to you to "protect" you from it.

    I can't believe that's true of every higher-up at Bethel, but that was the impression I was left with of the GB.

    Dave

  • Whiskeyjack
    Whiskeyjack

    You're doing fine. Just ask him to keep thinking and make appeals to his sense of logic and integrity.

    As for the GB, they're not the first Org. to lose it's sense of purpose but continue on via its own interia. The alternative is frightening when all you're left with is questions again. Personal integrity has a price and its often personal comfort (I'd much rather think I had all the answers but duping myself is useless in the long run).

  • ithinkisee
    ithinkisee
    From Ray's book I got the impression that the GB believes they are leading "God's organization", that people truly need to be associated with it in order to survive the end.

    I agree with this too. I didn't reveal to him I had read Ray's book yet. I appealed to my close association with some of the GB and Writing Department in my congregation at Bethel and some of the conversations I had there.

    I'll let him know in time though ...

    -ithinkisee

  • ithinkisee
    ithinkisee
    As for the GB, they're not the first Org. to lose it's sense of purpose but continue on via its own interia.

    Can anyone provide examples? If not, no biggie, just thought I'd ask.

    -ithinkisee

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Ray Franz wrote on p345 of C of C

    "In all of this the basic premise will be persistently upheld, the concept that dominates the thinking and the action. It is that premise - that God must deal with humans through an organisation and that his king Christ Jesus has chosen the Watchtower organisation for this role - that hinders many discerning people from seeing where the true problem lies. As the saying is 'they cannot see the forest for the trees'. They can see the individual inconsistencies and injustices, the falsity of many teachings , the devious nature of many of the arguments, the unchristian spirit of many of the approaches. But they cannot see what all this adds up to, what the sum total is. They see the parts but not the whole. they cling to the hope - even as I clung to the hope- that the future will see great improvements , because their thinking is molded to the organisational premise." (end of quote)

    Basically they cannot conceive that "The Society" is wrong. It may be many things but of course God is using it. So, like the Israelites in the wilderness they just follow along trusting that God will eventually lead them to Paradise

  • Golf
    Golf

    ITS, it sounds good to me, stay the course no need to push him, he needs to think for himself.


    Golf

  • Gabby221
    Gabby221

    I'm not to sure on why they keep going other than the other responses but I have a few more ideas.

    1- Once you reach the "top" you have alot of power and people love power. You figure there are what? 6 million people around the world waiting to see what you have to say. They all think that God is speaking through them and I'm sure that kind of power to them is awesome.

    2- They are a multi million dollar corporation. The labor is free. In the past few months or so they have sold 2 properties that I have read about that equalled around 6 million dollars! Not to mention all the literature they sell. They also have millions tied up in stock. I'd keep it up too if I had that kind of cash flow. Actually I wouldn't beause I'm more honest then that but see how money and power can grab you?

    Gabby

    <><

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